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Old Dec 11, 2005, 12:50 PM
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The conveyor has nothing to do with it

Its time this thread was started, as people keep exploring bizzare theories.
Here's how it works, once and for all:
1 Axle friction is negligible, threrfore the conveyor can only hinder the forward progress of the plane with a small force.
2 The propellor provides a large force, which can easily get the plane moving relative to the EARTH below, and the AIR, which is either still or moving relative to the EARTH.
3 At this point, as I have said before, you can FORGET about the stupid conveyor.

Will the plane fly?
Realistically, if you have enought skill to keep the thing from skidding off the dang conveyor belt, as it will probably make the plane a bit difficult to control, sure, it will fly.

What is terrifying is that some of the naysayers who have created unrealistic FBDs may be some of the design engineers of the future. Let's hope these people are weeded out of the field before they build another Tacoma Narrows bridge.
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:02 PM
Fly it like you stole it..
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Florence, Al
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No.. it won't fly...

It doesn't matter the speed of the conveyor.. You are right.. but if you have a conveyor doing warp factor 5 and the speed of rotation of the wheels on the plane are also doing warp factor 5, the airplane is still stationary and there is no lift being created by the wings.. lift created by the wings is what causes flight..

a stationary airplane is generating no wind over it's wings.. no wind = no lift...thus.. the airplane will NOT fly...

It's very simple.. Bernoulli's principle.. http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aerojava/pic3-2.htm
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tram
No.. it won't fly...

It doesn't matter the speed of the conveyor.. You are right.. but if you have a conveyor doing warp factor 5 and the speed of rotation of the wheels on the plane are also doing warp factor 5, the airplane is still stationary and there is no lift over the wings.. lift over the wings is what causes flight.. thus.. the airplane will NOT fly...

It's very simple.. Bernoulli's principle.. http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aerojava/pic3-2.htm
If it were doing your Star Trek factor 5, the wheel would not maintain traction, and would skip around. There is no way that the wheels can possible hold back the plane with a force greater than FN. Agian, it will fly, if you can control the dang thing while its skipping on the tarmac.
Bill G.
B.S. Mechanical Engineering PSU 1991
P.S. Star Trek school of physics is not reality
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:09 PM
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OK man.. Warp Factor 5 was just a "fast number."

Ok.. answer this..

If an airplane is sitting on a conveyor... and the conveyor is going just as fast as the airplane.. the airplane is stationary.. correct???
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tram
OK man.. Warp Factor 5 was just a "fast number."

Ok.. answer this..

If an airplane is sitting on a conveyor... and the conveyor is going just as fast as the airplane.. the airplane is stationary.. correct???
Depend on the thrust from the PROP.
(Stationary in relation to what?)

One of the concepts here is Relativity. Some cant get past this.
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:26 PM
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Im gonna fly by with an AH-64 Apache and BLOW UP this dang imaginary conveyor belt!!! I GIVE UP!!!
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:29 PM
Fly it like you stole it..
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Ah yes, the typical "over intelligent" answer..."I will answer your question with another question and we'll go around in circles for infinity.."

Anyway.. If you have an airplane on a conveyor and the conveyor is doing X kias and the the aircraft is doing X kias also, then the aircraft stationary to everything surrounding it.. Unless of course your going to count the "motion of the earth" and such things..

So.. a stationary aircraft is.. just that stationary.. and is not generating any lift.. and will not fly..


My airplane doesn't have a prop.. There's some relativity for you...
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:30 PM
Fly it like you stole it..
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Laine - tell your gunner to get out and swing by and pick me up.. I know you guys do low level stuff over my house all the time..
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:31 PM
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Roger that, "Tower this is Mopar requesting a fly bye"

So if we put my helicopter on an imaginary, super sonic conveyor belt, will it fly?
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:32 PM
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Ok what if we have a helicopter sitting on a circular heli pad. The circular heli pad moves in such a way so that it counter rotates the rotation of the heli blades and matches the speed at all times. Would the heli fly?
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:33 PM
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Everyone is missing the BIG point . If the belt runs fast enough.

IT WILL FLY!
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:36 PM
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Actually, the conveyor is going to generate some wind if it moves at high speed. Think about the air friction against the belt moving fast.

Over time, it will accellerate a good bit of an air mass in the direction of the conveyor. As long as the aircraft is generating enough lift in this air mass, it is going to fly.
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:38 PM
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Richard - Please tell me how?

It doesn't matter how fast the belt goes, if the aircraft matches it.. it is still stationary... a stationary aircraft is not developing any lift...
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by is300zx
Ok what if we have a helicopter sitting on a circular heli pad. The circular heli pad moves in such a way so that it counter rotates the rotation of the heli blades and matches the speed at all times. Would the heli fly?

I dont know, but the pilot would be dizzy as heck and probably pretty mad about it! Besides, they Armys safety guys would never let us try this. lol
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Old Dec 11, 2005, 01:39 PM
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Do any of your planes actually leave the ground ?
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