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Old Dec 02, 2005, 12:44 PM
Taranis Tyro...
MattyB's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
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Pitcheron flying wing possible?

Calling all hairy-dynamic experts... is a pitcheron flying wing possible? I've been trying to work this out in my mind for some time, and the conclusion I've come to is that whilst the aileron function would work on a flying wing, the elevator wouldn't - it needs separate horizontal tail to work against to establish the new angle of attack. Is this correct?
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 12:59 PM
dark-side of the slope
twentynine's Avatar
Verona Italy
Joined Jul 2005
462 Posts
yes this is correct.
But if you do a wing with twisting tips you solved the problem.
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 02:38 PM
Slopeaholic
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Roseville, California, United States
Joined Mar 2001
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Somebody kitted a plane where the wing tips rotated for roll control a long time ago didn't they?
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 04:36 PM
It could happen...
InTheLift's Avatar
Torrance, California
Joined Jan 2004
7,537 Posts
North County guys gave it a whirl once upon a time...take a look.

http://www.northcountyflyingmachines.com/snark.htm
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 04:56 PM
Confirmed Chronic
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Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
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Harris never ceases to amaze me! Another great looking ship. I've owned an M60 and loved it, but I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed that Harris is focusing only on foam these days. Foam can be cool too, but it's only a small slice of r/c soaring.
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 05:16 PM
Registered User
Minneapolis
Joined Feb 2004
698 Posts
You underestimate the man

You underestimate Harris' involvement in things other than foam. Harris has been working to produce a wingeron capable of breaking current DS records. If and when that happens you will most certainly know about it. But don't count him out of the game. He's in it up to his neck.

I remember the Snark quite well. I was at Torrey the day that Harris made his way up the hill to test this little rocket.

He handed it to me to launch it and I was floored by how much it weighed compared to the stuff I was used to. It had his trademark aluminum servo mounts and a lot of othe hardware that added to the weight.

The horizontal stab was more for looks. It didn't function as an elevator, rather it was fixed. It was a very cool looking ship and from my memory it was really quite fast.

Harris hasn't really left the scene at all. He just has other people, me included, producing his designs.

Ed
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 05:27 PM
Mr. Innocent's Avatar
Oceanside CA
Joined Dec 2004
4,046 Posts
I've flown harris's pitcheron moth thingy... very very fast. accelerates on the turns like a friken rocket! Not to sure I was supposed to mention it though.
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 05:28 PM
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Oceanside CA
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And he is definately not just focusing on foam. Just wait.
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 07:46 PM
Taranis Tyro...
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United Kingdom, England, Hitchin
Joined Jan 2004
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Wow - that Snark looks like it's DSing at 150 even when it's sitting still! Very cool. Might do a version of something similar someday... are there any tried and trusted pitcheron mechanisms you can buy out there, or are they relatively easy to build yourself?
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 08:10 PM
Feeling FrSky
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyB
...the conclusion I've come to is that whilst the aileron function would work on a flying wing, the elevator wouldn't - it needs separate horizontal tail to work against to establish the new angle of attack. Is this correct?
That is correct. Without a fixed stab portion or a very unique fuse shape that accomplished the same thing, I'd expect that the elevator component of a pitcheron flying wing wouldn't work too hot.

Steve
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 08:16 PM
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screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
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I stand corrected. Given the flutter problems guys are having with even the smallest control surfaces at higher DS speeds, I will be floored indeed if he can produce a wingeron that holds up over 150mph.
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 08:50 PM
Fun ain't cheap!
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
That is correct. Without a fixed stab portion or a very unique fuse shape that accomplished the same thing, I'd expect that the elevator component of a pitcheron flying wing wouldn't work too hot.

Steve
Right on my man, the secret is in having the correct airfoils for the fixed part of the wing, and for the wingeron sections, along with varied chord lengths of the 3 sections. I've come close, and with a straight trailing edge along with the smaller chord length of the outboard sections created some de-facto sweep to the one I was working on, "The Wankeron" At least that's my direction, and when I talked with Derek about a year ago, it seemed we were on somewhat parrallel roads

If we get to fly tomorrow, I'll sketch it out for you.

Andy
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 10:16 PM
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I always thought about a Bluto with the portion outboard of the crank moving. I guess its a "Cranked-plank-pitcheron-canard" when you boil it down.
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Old Dec 03, 2005, 01:29 AM
Robots... robots everywhere
minifly's Avatar
Cape Town, South Africa
Joined Jan 2003
2,060 Posts
the difference with a pitcheron vs normal surface with regard to flutter:

you can mass balance the pitcheron, and it is already aerodynamically balanced:therefor no flutter.

normal surface are not balanced. mass or aerodynamically. flutter is a problem.


i think he may be onto something...
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Old Dec 03, 2005, 01:48 AM
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I just stumbled onto mass balancing about 6 mos ago, reading about rotor blades. I had this CR Turbo wingeron that had this habit of reaching a certain speed, then the slightest input or rough air caused it to violently pitch down. I finally bit the bullet and mass balanced the wings with lead wire inserted into deep holes drilled right behind the LE. Presto-chango, the plane flies great now.

The cause: The first set of wings were light 1/32nd over blue foam RG-15s with a light spruce LE. Those wings bit it in a mid-air, and got replaced with a heavier set od SD-8020's with 1/16th sheeting and lots of PU glue. The additional weight, more of it behind the wingrod mind you, caused the wings to become divergent.
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