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Old Dec 01, 2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_boy99
Bjpaul-

I think you may be on to something...

I don't believe I've seen a report of a lipo fire over a 5S pack???

Am I wrong?
fb
There probably has been one, but I don't remember it.......

I have been pondering on an algorithm for stage 1.

Rules that I have come with...... Never bump a 1S, 2S, 3S cell count.

Duty cycle for 1S should be 100% off

Testing could determine a Duty Cycle for 2S and 3S charged packs that would not dangerously overcharge the pack in stage 1 even if the current rate was set to some multiple of 1C (say 2C or perhaps 3C).


ALTERNATIVE:

Another posibility that would be even simpler would be change the stage 1 code so that it is only 1 minute long for 1S, 2S or 3S packs, 2 minutes for 4S and 5S and the current 3 minutes for >5S. Could a fully charged pack dangerously overcharge in 1 minute at a 50% duty cycle even with a high amp rate? Testing could tell.

Anyway the ASTRO 109 can be fixed.

Brad
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Last edited by bradpaul; Dec 01, 2005 at 01:50 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Dec 01, 2005, 03:17 PM
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Another thought that might support Dan's suggested modification.

While the CPU may not be plysically aware of the current setting it indirectly knows by being able to monitor pack voltage. No current, no voltage rise. Also as the display shows mah added to the pack I wonder how that calculation happens if the CPU does not see current.

Brad
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Old Dec 01, 2005, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjpaul
Another thought that might support Dan's suggested modification.

While the CPU may not be plysically aware of the current setting it indirectly knows by being able to monitor pack voltage. No current, no voltage rise. Also as the display shows mah added to the pack I wonder how that calculation happens if the CPU does not see current.

Brad
Actually that's not an issue. The CPU can monitor the current going to the pack being charged.

Dan
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Old Dec 02, 2005, 12:17 PM
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I've always believed that the AF 109 could be improved, just like any other manufactured product. I've spoken in defense of the AF 109 because I believe that it is an outstanding product for those who take the time to understand it. I honestly believed that it would have been updated by now. It's still a great product for those who take the time to understand it. But it's getting increasingly difficult to recommend it as the competition has been improving and the AF 109 continues to have what some believe to be a correctable weakness.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Hey look guys it appears under certain conditions the Astro 109 can charge at the wrong cell count. You can kiss up to Astro Bob if you want. But all Lipo chargers should have a manual cell count before charging.
You know there are people who are topping off there packs at near a full charge. Its clear the 109 can misread the actual cell count on a fully charged pack.
It may not do it every time......but it only has to do it once to ruin your life.
Astro Flight should pull this charger or put some kind of firmware change to alleviate this problem.
We are talking about people's lives here.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 10:56 AM
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The firmware has been updated long ago but no one can be forced to spend the $15 and 10 minutes to upgrade if they have no desire to do so. The AF109 is not the only charger which has needed a firmware updtae to make them safer for users who refuse to read and follow instructions and couple of key ones being.

Never charge Lipolys unattendeed.


Charge in an isolated area ,away from flamable materials.

PS I still have and use my A109 with custom firware and yes it can and will jump cell count if you do not follow instructions. A very simple one is do not charge a LiPoly if voltage exceeds XX.XX (in the owner's manual. )

Charles
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 03:36 PM
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Fortunately, most (if not all) chargers that have been brought to market over the last few years are balancing chargers that either charge cells individually or have a feedback loop that indicates to the microprocessor the charge state of each cell within a pack, all but eliminating the possibility of lipo fire due to accidental overcharge. This mere fact has undoubtedly saved countless homes, cars, garages, etc. from destruction by users unknowingly charging packs with damaged or mismatched cells.

Seemingly, vendors of budget lipolys spend much less time and effort matching lipoly cells for internal resistance and capacity when making packs than manufacturers of premium cells. Since most packs sold are likely 'budget' packs, this makes using a quality balancing charger an absolute must in my opinion in order to ensure maximum safety. I'm to the point now that I very rarely use my non-balancing chargers to charge lipolys but when I do I always use an inline balancer with a charge interrupt device to protect my home from the unforeseen. $35 for an LBA10 is just way too cheap to not own and use on a regular basis as the life you save may be your own.

Mark
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Seemingly, vendors of budget LiPolys spend much less time and effort matching lipoly cells for internal resistance and capacity when making packs than manufacturers of premium cells. Since most packs sold are likely 'budget' packs, this makes using a quality balancing charger an absolute must in my opinion in order to ensure maximum safety.
The ironic thing is that most who purchase the low priced perhaps not so well matched cells LiPolys are also the ones who purchase the least expensive lowest quality not so well calibrated chargers also. .

Charles
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 03:59 PM
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Very true Charles. If fact, I'm not so certain that this isn't part of the business model - Sell a charger that chronically slightly overcharges such that lipolys need replacing much sooner than if slightly undercharged, thus ensuring more lipoly sales...

It's amazing how quickly well-calibrated equipment (charger, DMM, etc.) can pay for themselves.

Mark
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 04:12 PM
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I tried for years to convience others that LiPolys were best charged to only 4.15 per cell not 4.2. Most have a screaming fit it their charger does not pack them full. Charging to 4.15 per cell is faster,extends thier life and that 5% is never missed perormance wise unless you are a competitor .


Dave ( Mr. Hyperion) has stated that the new G3 packs can be charged to 4.3 per cell without damage but I have not heard of or seen any data pertaing to how such overcharging effects lifecycles.


Charles
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 04:17 PM
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Last post before Zero's today was Dec 2005.

I often wonder how these golden oldies all of a sudden pop up out of nowhere.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 04:24 PM
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Chargers/Balancers

I'm using an 4 year old Triton charger with a Thunderpower balancer and my pack is cool as a cucumber.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 04:27 PM
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Saw that too, Hoppy, but it's fun to reminisce...

I'm with you there Charles. That's one thing I really like about my present chargers - they're extremely accurate and I can 'dial down' the termination voltage to preserve the life of my lipoly investment. Did precisely this prior to my first charge.

I remember all of the hoopla that was raised and the flack that Hyperion Dave was undeservedly taking because a few chargers were within manufacturing tolerance yet terminating a few millivolts shy of 4.2 / cell and the owners were irate. Never could quite figure that out...

Mark
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy
Last post before Zero's today was Dec 2005.

I often wonder how these golden oldies all of a sudden pop up out of nowhere.

Look at his joined date and read first sentance of his post. Seems like it came as news to him.

Charles
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 07:21 PM
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version 2.0

version 2.0 software has been available since jan 2008
it locks in cell count at when pack is connected.

older version 1.7 locked in cell count after 3 minutes
at the start of mode 2. for this version user must
monitor charger for cell count at the 3 minute beep.

new soft ware is available on the astro web store.
astrobob
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