High end DLG comparison (subjective)

[csocso]

Hi Everyone,
In a way I am new in the DLG chatroom, however I am following multiple threads for long now.
I would like to do a somewhat real comparison among the High end DLG's. (to help others who consider to buy any of these models and of course to get some input for myself for the future)

I own: Hyper DLG from arthobby (first dlg, not intended to put in the test)
Blaster from Kennedycomposites
Epona from Chad Sullivan
XP-4 from Denny Maize
Taboo GT from Oleg (just received)
XP-4.5 (waiting for the wings)

First I would like to grade the kit quality. And I will post my measurement on each model with weight data etc. I have to say right now, most of my measurements are, in a way arteficial. I have a set of flying data from my hand launches, and a second set of data towing up the planes and releasing them as a free flight. (I couldn't help I am doing F1A for more than 24years now)

Each measurement was performed 12 times (dont ask why 12) on each plane with relativly calm weather. (after 6:00 PM no considerable thermal, low wind < 2m/s during this fall.)
Unfortunatelly my XP-4 wingtip is injured due to airline mishandling (dont fly KLM) and I have minor injury on the Blaster too (likely not affecting anything)

First, my grading on the kits on a scale 1-10.

Blaster - 9
so far the best quality kit, minor issues only easily correctable. The worst was some misalignment between the rudder (the boom was already cut for the rudder and attached to the pod) and the wing. I would prefer some lighter cover on the rudder and elevator, like clear micafilm, mylar, or icarex.

Taboo GT (just received) - 8
Minimal sanding on the leading edge (the leading edge should be perfectly smooth without undulation) and the sanding is not too nice on the elevator leading edge either. (would be better to leave it and let the owner sand) all these are easily correctable.
Dont get me wrong so far the best quality bagged kit, and likely gona be the best performer too)

XP-4 - 7
The pod had (same the XP-4.5) some extra epoxy in it. Meaning the carbon is oversaturated a little bit adding extra weight to the boom. Boom and pod joint is not really nice. Honestly these are minimal things not afecting the performance but you feel it when you pick them up. The elevator feels very weak (bends on the sun too) the elevator sadle does not fit on the boom, srcews are very thight etc.

Epona - 6
Sanded leading edge again, which I had to saturate with thin epoxy. (much worse than Taboo GT)The wing is already joined, but the spars are misaligned with 1mm. (not a perfect joint)
Pod appear unfinished, need lots of sanding on the edges and on the joint and some saturation with epoxy after that. The sadle area on the elevator bottom surface is not cut precisely. Again, all this is correctable, and the plane flies very nicely!!

I cannot grade the XP-4.5 yet.

I will post my measurements soon.

If anyone have different experience with this 4 plane, please post it!!
More people would grade these planes the more accurate it would be!

Thanks,
attila

[csocso]

Some info about the data collection.
I used a tiny temporary towhook screwed into a small balsa block 1.5cm front of the CG. I towed up the planes with my F1A towline (50m).
After releasing the plane I did not touch the transmitter. ( Each plane have two setup regarding the flaperons, one with flap (camber change) plus aileron and one only with flap function - no aileron, rudder only turn.
The planes were on the camber only setup and upon releasing them I just added some extra right rudder, usually two nothes on the trim. They did large right circles.
From the 12 start (usually 6 /night/model) I trough out the best and the worst. Here are the means and SD values.

50m launch no active RC almost freeflight, wind: 0.8-1.3m/s
Blaster: 132s SD:9s
XP-4: 141s SD:6s (again right wingtip damaged!!!)
Epona: 145s SD:7s
my best F1A glider did: 182s SD:12s

DLG launch with no aileron cambers only, large right circles flown
Blaster: 87s SD:11s
XP-4: 105s SD:9s
Epona: 110s SD:10s

Model weights:
Blaster: 311g (JR 241s in fuse, D60 in wings, Shadow 3 receiver, AAA 720mah battery plus 9g extra weight in the nose. Balanced a little bit (3-4mm) aft from the rec. position I have to admit.
XP-4: 285g (JR 241s everywhere, shadow 3 receiver 350mah 1/3 AA battery, balanced a little bit (3mm) foreward to the recommended CG position.
Epona: (JR241s in the fuse, D4.7 in the wing very questionable!!, Berg 4 DSP-II receiver 350mah 1/3AA battery. Balanced at recommended CG position (I just got lucky)

Personal opinions comming soon!

[little flyer]

Wow, great info Thanks!

[jrerickson]

This is a very interesting thread! I didn't catch your Epona weight...

John

[Matt Chester]

What is the SD measurement?

[glderguy]

Looks like the Epona aint too shabby a bird. I suspect you are flying the heavier version as well. I have been pumpming the Epona lately, not because Im a salesman, but because its a great plane. It gets better, my new "light" Epona very well may be close to one ounce lighter than my 9.4 "heavy"Epona! I suspect 8.6 MAX! Who cares about a little dryness, I like it! And I aint no salesman! Of course that is with a Cg closer to my liking, your preference may be very different. Chad, you da man!!!! Oh yeah, the Epona is a launchin fool as well!! You dont want one John!!
Walter

[Harry S.]

Great idea...

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, how much does the wing on your Blaster weigh ready to fly?

thanks
Harry

[thelocust]

Taboo GT - $450
XP-4/4.5 - $389
Blaster - $350
Epona - ???? - Couldn't find a price on the website.

[GaryO]

The new Epona is about $380. Chad is building an inventory and when he has them, they are "first come, first served". Better keep checking his website for availability. I've got an early one, and it's much better than I am.

Gary

[vitas]

Very interesting, would be nice see comparisons for windy , thermal conditions too.
PS. about F1A glider, impressed with the dead time, seems to be you are a World champion, the max flying time in F1A task is 180 sec, it meens you do not need to search thermals for the win

[Chachi639]

Originally Posted by Matt Chester

What is the SD measurement?

Presumably it's standard deviation, not an independent measurement. It tells you how spread out were the measurements. See this wikipedia link.

[csocso]

HI everyone,
My Epona weight: 278g just a little bit shy of 10oz.
I do not have too much experience with the Epona in thermal condition, but I will post all my data on the Blaster and XP-4 thermal flight.
I have to say in advance, the XP-4 had a little bit better flying result before it's injury. Unfortunatelly the data is not in clam air but rather in heavy thermal condition so I omited from the comparison.
SD means standard deviation. I can post all the raw data with all my measurements if someone is interested.
Personaly, I did not observe too much difference between the Epona and XP-4. Epona may have a little bit more rudder authority, however with minimaly larger dihedral. Both of them are really good.(that's way I ordered the new XP-4.5. )
I am really looking forward to see the Taboo GT.

[csocso]

Hi Vitas,
Unfortunately I am not the world champ in F1A! I am using Oleg Stoev 2360mm wing with a w-hobby 750mm fuse. You can max out in dead air relatively easily, however the flyoff is a different business with increasing maxes. Plus in thermal condition the air is never stationary vertically. Meaning if you are in a thermal you will max out but if you are not, you likely will land sooner than 180s.
Stamov and the big guys can do 240s from 50m calm air!
The wingloading is substancially less on a F1A glider than a DLG.
Attila

[glderguy]

Attila,
You seem to have a fairly heavy Epona, even for the 'heavy" version.
Suprising since you chose to use 4.7s in the wing in lieu of say d60s.
I found it easy to get the Epona to come in at 9.5 and less. Paying particular attention to build of anything behind the Cg seemed to pay dividends in the end. After some dialing in/trimming of Cg to my tastes I was able to use a much smaller battery than the 370 and still felt, in light air, I was forward on the Cg(my Cg). Other than add tail weight, I was as light as I could get in the nose with that particular build. The next one will be a waay different story. The new Taboo GT sounds like a great plane, a local here has one and said it really hangs.
Walter

[gustabmo]

Originally Posted by csocso

XP-4 - 7
the elevator sadle does not fit on the boom

The instructions state clearly that you should slit the bottom of the elevator saddle before attaching to the boom