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Old Nov 02, 2005, 09:05 AM
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Jetset44's Super Bandit EDF

Guys,

I saw this in the pusher section and would like to build an EDF version. Jetset44 posted some EDF modifications and a 75% version. The 75% version has a 24" wingspan, 27" length, and has enough space for a Microfan but I think this is still to large for this fan. So, I asked Steve and he resized the plans to 65%. This is probably as small I could go without enlarging/distorting the fan area to bad. I'm going to print out the fan area and do some more measuring and will try to post pics.

On the flip side, I also thought about using a 60mm Alpha fan and 2025/5300 or similar in the full size version or slightly smaller.

I'm open to any advice or ideas anyone might have to make this a great flyer.

Here's the link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434976

65% plans: http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/at...Eco79yZxMjMTL=

Mac8
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Racine, WI AMA# 809291
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Hi Mac,

Thanks for starting this thread Stay Tuned for a set of EDF Modified Plans....

All of the Plans can be found on my website, too Super Bandit Plans



Tom - Milwaukee
www.parkjets.com
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 04:44 PM
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I got the 65% plans all printed up and the wingspan is just under 21". The fan area is only around 45mm in height and around 55mm in width but I think I can make a 50mm microfan work by increasing the height some. Here's some pics. If anyone has any suggestions let me know.
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 06:17 PM
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Mac,

Does the 65% work? It looks kinda tight...
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 07:05 PM
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Sal,

The width is no problem but the height will need some enlarging. My plan is to enlarge the height of the inlet ducts and continous this all the way back to the outlet. I'm going to cut out some in fan fold to see if it distorts the lines of the plane to much.
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 07:53 PM
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75% might be easier to work with
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 08:11 PM
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Your probably right. I was trying to keep it as light as possible.

I played around with both the 65% and 75% plans and put the 75% inlet ducts on the 65% airframe and it doesn't look bad. The nice thing is it increases the size and volume of air coming into the fan.
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 09:37 PM
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This is great, Mac! Can't wait to see how this progresses. I'd be glad to tweak the plans or post new sizes as necessary if someone needs it.

Steve
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Old Nov 02, 2005, 10:25 PM
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Steve,

If its not to much trouble, could you post the plans at 70%?

Mac8
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Old Nov 03, 2005, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac8
Steve,

If its not to much trouble, could you post the plans at 70%?

Mac8
No prob, I've posted them below. I also took a quick look at this in CAD. I scaled my generic EDF unit to 50mm diameter to match the Microfan, and then put that inside a 70% scaled Bandit (see pic below). To make it fit in height, I bumped up the inlet height a little bit. The blue lines coming off the fan unit are the thrust tube lines, assuming 90% exit area for the exhaust (is that the right ratio to use?). One problem I can see right away is the 90% thrust tube is far bigger than the aft end of this bird, so the aft end will need to be enlarged. I haven't checked the inlet areas yet, but it looks like they may need to be enlarged a little as well.

What the consensus--is this airframe about the right size for this fan unit or should we scale up the airframe a little?

Steve
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Old Nov 03, 2005, 02:05 AM
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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the 70% sized plans. I have all 3 (75, 70, and 65%) listed on the webpage, and I have noted the 75% size for 55mm EDF fans, and the 70% for Microfans.

The exhaust area is best at 85% of the Fan Swept Area ( the area of the fan minus the Hub area) so its not as large as 85% of the fan itself. Makes me wish I had paid more attention in math class LOL.

For those who want a little more thrust than "Top Speed" just increase the exhaust area a few percent.

Last time I wrote this I got it Backasswards, LOL I hope this time it's right
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Old Nov 03, 2005, 02:32 AM
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Cool, thanks for the info on FSA, Tom. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to see what it takes to enlarge the aft fuselage to fit the exhaust tube better. And see if the inlet areas need to be resized to provide 100% FSA. At least for the Microfan. We'll also need to figure out what the best thing to do with the horizontal tail is--on top of or on bottom of the fuselage. I like the look of the low tail, but it would be very exposed to landing damage. Top-mounted solves that.

Just out of curiosity, what's the most popular fan unit/motor/battery combo these days for park jet sized airplanes? (the regular 28" to 32" park jets). The Minifan looks great for a smaller jet, but I'm wondering what setup is best for a regular-sized EDF park jet.

Steve
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Old Nov 03, 2005, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetset44
Cool, thanks for the info on FSA, Tom. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to see what it takes to enlarge the aft fuselage to fit the exhaust tube better. And see if the inlet areas need to be resized to provide 100% FSA. At least for the Microfan. We'll also need to figure out what the best thing to do with the horizontal tail is--on top of or on bottom of the fuselage. I like the look of the low tail, but it would be very exposed to landing damage. Top-mounted solves that.

Just out of curiosity, what's the most popular fan unit/motor/battery combo these days for park jet sized airplanes? (the regular 28" to 32" park jets). The Minifan (did you mean Microfan here?) looks great for a smaller jet, but I'm wondering what setup is best for a regular-sized EDF park jet.

Steve
Hi Steve,

The WeMoTec Minifan is sort of the Industry Standard for Parkjets. It's the fan used most often for the HET-Rc Jets (The KC F-18, Sniper). The Minifan is a good choice for up to 5 Lb. sized jets. The Minifan has an outside Diameter of 72mm (Impeller is 68MM) and the next size up is the WeMoTec Midifan at 90mm. Larger fans go all the way up to 5 inches and can produce 10+ lbs of thrust. There are several other manufacturers of EDF Fans, and they can very in price from $15.00 to over $300.00

I like using Mega Motors, but there are several other manufacturers motors that work well too like Hacker, Kontronik, Aveox, and the new HET motors to name a few. I'm most familiar with Mega so I'll use that as my example.

With EDF's you can't change props (Impellers) so the only changes you can make are the motors, and batteries to acheive your desired power.

For the last few years the Mega 16/15/2 and 16/15/3 have been the motor of choice for the Minifan. The 16/15/2 has a Kv of 4600 rpm per volt, so you can use a smaller Lipo pack Generally a 3S Pack to get high enough RPM to run the Minifan efficently. The 16/15/3 runs best on 4S or even 5S lipo packs. The Mega 16/15/xx series are factory rated at 350 Watts, but we generally can pump 500 watts through them safely with some good air cooling.

Mega has introduced two new motors the 16/17/2 known as the EDF-16 and a "Long Can" 16/20/2 motors. These motors can be pushed to 600 to 700 watts of power. The New HET motors are also capable of 700 Watts of power too.

Naturally, with higher power set-up's you need large Lipo's battery packs to run them. The higher Kv motor you run the shorter your flying time is generally.

The trick to finding the "best set-up" for your parkjet is to balance the power to the jet, and ensure that the jet is sized with sufficent wing loading so it can fly in the style your accustomed to.

EDF's are not as efficent as prop motors, the EDF fans reach there best efficency at high RPM's, which generally means hauling large heavy battery packs.
You won't see too many EDF jets "Flying Scale like" most folks fly them in what I like to call the "Boom and Zoom" method. You can see an example of what I'm talking about by watching a video of the HET Sniper Jet . Low fast passes over the runway followed by high speed looping turns to come back for another high speed low pass. You'll see this a lot with people flying the Super Bandit, its not what you'd call an aerobatic jet

www.dynamoelectrics.com sells the Mega Motors, and WeMoTec EDF's, and www.warbirds-rc.com sells WeMoTec EDF's and the HET-Rc EDF fan's and motors.

Warbirds-RC has a neat little comercial for the Sniper , produced by Steve Neill that is fun to watch (You Rock Steve!!)
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Old Nov 03, 2005, 12:01 PM
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EDF Motor!!

OK Guys,
I've come up with the motor for this! The Pics below show the test motor with a 4.2x4 APC prop at 303 watts and 30 amps, and 31,650rpm's. The other pic shows the small motor and how it will easily fit into a Vasa or GWS fan unit. I expect with a fan it would be around 23 amps and 244 watts. The motor is 19g's, with an outside diameter of 21.3mm and about 19mm long. That should do it!! I am really Jazzed about this one!
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Old Nov 03, 2005, 12:14 PM
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Since the first prototypes, we have now cut reliefs for the wires to exit the side of the mount. This motor is double for a helicopter, but the singles for EDF's look just like this only as a single so it's half as long. You can clearly see the exit hole for the motor wires and vision how it would sit in the EDF housing.
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