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Old Nov 04, 2005, 01:53 PM
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Well, the most important issue here is the
maximum power that Alfa fan can handle?
Could it be 550 watts like in the test with 16/7/3, 4s2p???

The rest is quite simple.

DF power based on two very basic principles
1/ high KV, low cell count, high amps
2/ low KV, high cell count, low amp

for example:
2025-5300, 3S1P, alfa fan at 26 apms puts out 260 watts (principle 1)
16/7/3, 3s2p, alfa fan @ 28 amps puts out 285 watts, (less with 3s1p) (principle 1)

2025-4200, 4s2p, alfa fan @17.5Amps puts out 252 watts (principle 2)
16/7/4, 4S1P, alfa fan at 20 amps put out 256 watts. (principle 2)
so on so forth...

Is there any differences between those set ups? Not much.
Almost same output. Nothing is secret or taboo about it.
So don't expect much different between them.
The good thing about low cell count is the 3S pack
so popular among flyers and you do not worry about the BEC
at high cell. Oh you use the Park BEC or CC 35 on the 4S systems
for the high cell count issue.

flip a coin and put any of those systems above into your plane, you
will not see any difference in performance. So enjoy it.

300 watts or less is the alfa fan should be. Even that
little micro fan is rated at 300 watts.

So the question remains, will alfa fan survive for a while
with 16/7/3, 4S2p at 550 watts. If It is "tried and true" system then
that will bring the new excitement to us, rather than those
regular things, like those examples above.

Thanks for the good tests though. By the way, there
are many motors out there will do the same for us.
Just Make your pick.

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Old Nov 04, 2005, 04:56 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
Bruce- I understand. Maybe one of the jet togethers I can bring some down to blow up your depron skirt.

Scott- In like Flynn! If you like something you see, I'll hook you up with the contacts. I can drill and tap your adapter too if you wish. Soo worth the time.

Man! Lighter and cheaper batteries, lighter and cheaper ESC, lighter wires (if so inclined), and more power to boot? I can't wait.

Keven- I'm with you. Call it work, and everyone will dissapear. Find something you love doing and you'll never work a day in your life.

Justin
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 05:06 PM View Post
rcguy01
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 05:06 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
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Scott- I replied to your PM.

If anybody has "Contact Q's" don't hesitate to ask by PM! Worth saving the money along with the get great service.

Justin
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 06:22 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Joined Nov 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roccobro
Near the end of the Huckebein run they switched to Mk2. All fans are now Mk2. I bought a bunch of Mk1's as I did not know that they were any differences. In fact, Hobby-lobby shows the Alfa fan on their site (#1501) which is the Mk1 part number. Called, and they say they only carry the Mk2's, and that is the "correct" number for them. That's not what www.alfamodel.cz says.

<snip

Justin
Justin the one I bought thru Hobby Lobby is the MK2. I dont remember the part number though.

Eric B.
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 09:04 PM
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Joined Mar 2000
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All this number crunching looks great and is very educational. The only thing holding me back from going 4s though is the fact that I have pretty much standardized all my small models to 3s power systems in the 1300-2400mah range. Plus, I suppose I still like the idea of only one pack in the airplne (versus two ganged together with all the extra wire and plugs). I am a "fan" of high voltage, one of my setups is a 10s but it's a big jet.

Is there a dark horse motor combo in the running for a 3s1p setup in the Alfa, as an altertnative to the Himaxx choices?
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 09:15 PM
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upland CA
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He He He this is giong to be cool....I cant wait.
Scott
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 10:02 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
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Eddie- Maybe a Hacker but I think I'm done with this testing unless somebody will lend me a 5300 to do a "baseline" run with. The 5300 on 3s is pretty good and some swear by it enough to go out of their way to regurgitate it over and over. Himax is the cheapest I would go at these current levels (not that anything else won't work), and the Megas are the cheapest of "high end" motors. The Megas have the weight and torque advantage and would only need a dremel to make fit/work in the Alfa fan. Seems that too many are stuck in the "tried and true" connundrum and cannot peer outside their box for any reason. The Hyperions look OK and have a weight advantage like the Mega, but I'm a little leery as they don't have the diam increase to overcome the torque decrease due to it's shorter length.

I understand some won't want to make the 4S jump or even the 2plus2s adapters and why. It has been a great dual purpuse solution for all my planes and packs and I hope others will see how easy it is to expand their horizons with packs and motors they already have using a couple spare plugs. I've presented all my views and information. Not much more for me to say but try some better batteries than I did and HAVE FUN!!!.

Scott- It will be cool.

Justin

If anybody wants me to drill and tap their adapters, PM me for details.
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 11:14 PM
smug in granny panties
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NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
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I think some are leary about swappping packs around cause of earlier mishaps or just wives tails about using packs in that way. I personally have been using all kinds of packs in diffeent formats and variations from "S" to "P" plugs and have had nothing but luck with it. I even order 2s packs now rather than a 4s pack just so I can mis them up. I just make sure its the same brand and cell type, and make sure they were all recently charged.

Barry
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 09:55 PM
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upland CA
Joined Dec 2004
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Ok well I think that went well...Justin and I put some of his tests to the test! First flight was with my set up Himax motor and cc 25 esc with gen 1 fan..The huck flies nice put needs some top speed..We made a few passes then added the gen 2 rotor. big jump in fan pull.. then we added one of his hotter set ups..Tried a rog...Pilot error !!! too much back stick ( the huck doesnt want to rotate off grass and just skids along) when it did lift off I didnt get the stick back fast enuff and did a nice back flip onto its nose. the battery slid forward and riped out the servo and side of the nose.Also the tail broke off on one side. But after a bit of CA she was ready to go. flew again with hand launch .nice and fast now did notic a bit of a nose tuck in one of the dives but didnt hit the ground. landed and checked the batt temp! it was only 86 deg. so one more time. oops pilot error and got a pitch up after launch. ithought it was going to pull out of it but at the last sec. hear comes that back flip onto its nose again. I think the high sweep on the wings causes the flip when the tail stalls.Just guessing.So tonite I will try to glue it back together again for more testing. justin has some good video to post soo maybe you guys can get a doppler for speed?

Scott
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 09:59 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Low thrust line adds to it I think and I have doppler ready to go...

Eric B.
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 10:02 PM
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turbonut's Avatar
upland CA
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HeyJustin, If you can post the vid of the LA 7. maybe AirX can check speed for it also.
Scott
PS Justin is a good Guy Nice to meet him in person!
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 10:09 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
Successful maiden flight today with Herb as test pilot!
APEX 3S 2200 12Cw/ Himax2025/5300
This is an excellent setup, The fan really screams and it just about flew out of my hand upon launch.
However, I can see that some people would want more power/speed then this setup provides. I was unable to procure a 4S pack that could handle 30+ amps and I didn't get a separate bec either so no acid test for the 5300kv.(YET!)
I think my extended exhaust duct exit is 51mm so I'll squeeze down to 45mm or so and see if thats enough of a speed increase for me.
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 10:12 PM
EDF rules... :)
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Joined Nov 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut
HeyJustin, If you can post the vid of the LA 7. maybe AirX can check speed for it also.
Scott
PS Justin is a good Guy Nice to meet him in person!
Yup I can do that, and as for Justin - your right he is top shelf.

Eric B.

BTW I also need the air temps as close as you can guess anyway..
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Last edited by AirX; Nov 05, 2005 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Added Comment
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 11:47 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
I'm having the video tranferred to my comp now. Hope to have it done tonight.

Scott neglects to mention we got alot of flying time in between those nose-ins. He's a good flyer- with all the motors and pack swapping he rarely even verified the CG was good. He still had no problems flying! He's just a natural I guess...

Park BEC did it's thing and was transparent.

We did have a fan problem at one point. The motor tube and stators seperated from the outer housing. A little CA put it back in place, but it shouldn't have had a problem from such a small incident (the ROG backflip). Overall, I might be about to eat crow. These planes just might be worth the premium $$ they command. The paint on Scotts Huck stayed in place even after appying scotch tape several time to the foam. Very minor, but I was suprised! I even think the Alfa fan unit might have a place in the current EDF lineup with some of these tested setups in my POV.

Scott- It was around 85 degree's right? Beautiful whatever it was. Will do on the vid!

Bruce- Congrats!!

Justin
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