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Old Nov 01, 2005, 05:26 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
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Wow! 64k, on 4s that is flat out screaming I don't know how long that little bugger could hold up at those power levels, but I bet that first flight would be fun that is a bit over the Mega 55k max they have on the box. The 3s however, looks very close to the load I got from my Microfan, must be the 4 blade as opposed to the 3 blade of the Alfa. Cool stuff!!!

Mike
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:01 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
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The Wemo micros rotor also has alot mor eblade area than the Alfa. Kinda weird that they load the same as the diff in fan diam is pretty big (50mm vs. 60mm).

Justin
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:09 PM
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I wish the manufactures rated their fans so we are
not going to push the fans' limit insanely.
Maybe pushing only 10-20% beyond of the rating
for fun.

Anyhow, that is very impressive number, 560 watts on
the Alfa 60mm fans. And I doubt the 16/7/3 will
last very long with 560watts output.

I would wait for somebody brave enough to try this
set up with his plane in the air
and test the longevity of the fan with
560 watts. A few seconds testing on the bench does not
guaranteed anything.

Good luck and I would not want to try on my plane
for safety's sake
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:10 PM
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Justin so what do you think if you are planning on using 3s tp 2100pl pack. Do you see any noticeable increase between the himax 2025-5300 and the mega 16 7 3? I was runnning the himax with the 3 blade gws impeller the plane went in when the controller smoked, so i was doing some more load tests and the impeller let loose on a full throttle run and when it let loose it snapped the motor shaft. Talk about back luck and maxx is out of the rotors. So i need a new set up, thinking about the mega 16 7 3. From your testing is it worth the extra cash or stick with 2025-5300. ART
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:39 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Joined Nov 1999
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Justin,

Well looks like the numbers tell the tale, it wont come apart at these rpms just as I stated in the thread that was closed.
This has been a part of hot rodding since the 50's, push it till it drops.

As to manufacturers they have published a comepletely safe figure so the lawyers cant get involved.

Eric B.
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Last edited by AirX; Nov 01, 2005 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Added Comment
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:44 PM
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talk is cheap and few seconds testing does not mean great longevity.

Why don't you put that alfa fan + 16/7/3 at 560 watts on
your plane and zoom it away to enjoy
the performance for a while and write a report about how it feels.
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:53 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Joined Nov 1999
13,563 Posts
Justin has done a lot of the leg work in gathering the data from real world testing and I did provided the data from mathematical examination. So I dont know what your talking about, I do this for a living and talk is not cheap if it can be substantiated.

Eric B.
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:57 PM
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I am worrying about some flyers may follow those
unproven results and in serious danger because of that.

If nothing wrong with that why don't you try it out
in real world, not in a few seconds test, and let us know about it.
Fair, right?
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 07:02 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Joined Nov 1999
13,563 Posts
So go back 100 years and tell the Wright bothers what they were doing is dangerous. Flying any aircraft is dangerous and the only protection is to not do it or figure out all the things that can go wrong and engineer them out of the system. As for telly anyone that they cant to domething becuase a manufacturer only stated that it has to be kept at 150watts is like telling the guys at American Chopper not to build bikes that could crash and kill people.
Whats unproven, we proved it.

Eric B.
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 07:03 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
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No you go and prove Justin wrong as he has set the benchmark for performance with this fan.

Eric B.
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 07:41 PM
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If I were to ask Rocco...Hey what setup should I use in X plane, I would trust the answer given. The people that run the tests know, the naysayers that say you can't do that having never even tried know squat!!!

Ron -
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 07:54 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
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Well proven is boring Cookie cutter users need not reply here. I would appreciate you not posting your negative views in my thread kind Sir. Constructive criticism is welcome and appreciated, whining or "naysaying" can be started in another thread. PLEASE: arguing will not be tolerated here.

Now back to those who aren't afraid of foam.

AirX- The rotor has slightly more than 1mm or blade tip clearance after all these runs. I had to clean the inside of the fan housing after the first "high power" run from the 2025-4200 motor. Since then only slight scuffing has occured. For comparison- the rotor blades had about .010" (.31mm) clearance when I first setup the rotor/motor/adapter alignment. Vibrations were much better(less) than my first experience with a glued on rotor "button" and the Mk1 rotor. Vibration is creeping back in after teh "self clearancing" of the rotor and I am tryingto figure a way to mass balance the setup for butter smooth acceleration! Remember the Alfa Queen spun his rotor to over 70K with no problem seen. At 65K, I am more worried about the motor, than the rotor. Good thing they have KEVLAR BANDAGES!

232CAP- Sorry to hear of your mishap. I am planning to your GWS rotor mod again when I finish here. It seems I need to try it with a proper inlet before I can quantify my previous results. I am currently upgrading my tachs LED's for more consistancy I do not have a 5300 Himax, I can believe the overall consensus form many modellors that it makes right at 50K rpm to make it's thrust. While "tried and true" (tired if you ask me) If I am to spend some more $$ on motors and not on airframes, I will get some Hackers to do what Philpops and Zimmerman are doing in here

Getting great performance and not being chicken to push the limit of a "piece of foam" is what owning a jet is all about. I remember some joker saying 300 watts per pound is NEEDED for "jet like" performance. I enjoyed my first jet at 101 watt's/lb. And, well the real F-86 could never do a vertical launch and at 450 watt per pound the model version should be fun. I am just presenting options for those who just bought their plane and now NEED to buy the proper requisite BL motor that will suit their desires and get her in the air.

Thanks for all the replies gentleman. I do this testing for those who can use the information to enjoy this hobby just a little bit more.

Justin
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 08:21 PM
Hooper, full throttle!
Tommy D's Avatar
USA, NY, East Islip
Joined Feb 2004
11,052 Posts
Justin

Thanks for the real world data. Your saving a LOT of people a LOT of time!

Gee makes me feel like my old Kavan HE-162/Astro 010 combo is a real tub after reading your numbers!

Once again, thank you.

Tommy D
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 08:28 PM
turbonut's Avatar
upland CA
Joined Dec 2004
7,266 Posts
Hi Justin, Question! I have an alfa Huck with the gen 1 fan, Bl motor, Last week I was flying and the spinner poped off.made a nice buzzing niose! made a quick landing and the spinner shot out the front.Every thing checked out ok so I left it off and flew some more.The palne seemed faster! have you made anytest with and with out the spinner? also do you fly over at SB airport? Its not too far from me. Love to see some of your fast jets!
Scott
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 08:29 PM
Watts your motivation
roccobro's Avatar
San Bernardino, CA
Joined Aug 2003
6,512 Posts
No problem Tommy! I'm still a "3s under 20 amp" kinda guy at heart, but I own a bunch of 4s packs and adapters for making up to 7s packs. Without charger/esc or other limits, I am free to try out all kinds of battery/motor combos to help others. I really need to solder up my newest PL packs to make my testing equipment more "up to date" and in line with what most will be buying for their new planes.

BTW- That astro is being used on 4s in the Jetsett44 EDF conversions.

Scott- Glad to hear it is still OK. I did the first half of my tests without the inlet lip and without the spinner. DOn't know what difference it makes (yet?) I have read others did not see any difference in performance. My gut feeling is that with a "low power" setup not much will be lost or noticed. When you start moving HUGE amounts of air (500g+), it will become beneficial to use but not a deal breaker. What is really cool about the Mk1 fan is that is can be modded to the Mk2 rotor and realize a VERY substantial increase in thrust. The blades are wider, and have not as much tatper at the tips (where the work is done). You can order them from Euromodels for $16+10 shipping in AUS$'s. Special order (6-8weeks)from Hobby Lobby for $18 + shipping. If you jsut want to give one a whirl, I've got some spares.

I fly at the soccer blaster fields up where the 15 and 215 merge. I'd love to bring out some of my beaters to fly with you.

Justin
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Last edited by roccobro; Nov 01, 2005 at 08:36 PM.
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