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Old Oct 20, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Eliminator RC should be Eliminated in Winnipeg

Against the advice of some friends, I visited Eliminator RC here in Winnipeg to look around. While I was there, I spotted the Venom Night Ranger II fixed pitch heli and decided that since my Dragonfly had bit the dust, and my Blade was being kept in mint shape, so I dropped the 280 CND for it. Took it home, charged the battery, the next day there was no wind so I go out to the ball field to try it out. Now I have flown before, no expert but no dummy either, so everything was checked, now don't forget that these are supposed to be test flown before they leave Venom. Of course, as soon as it starts to lift off, the fusalage starts to gyrate, and then the main rotor won't stop after I drop the throttle. I reset everything, try again, same thing happens, so instead of messing with things I figure I better take this back as something is wrong.
So, I return, now don't forget, this is the next day after I purchase it. I inform the woman (co owner with her husband Mike) about my problem, and she says she doesn't really know helicopters, so can I leave it there. I do, and about 2 hours later receive a call so I return to the store where her husband awaits. He tells me that the main rotor blades weren't tightened up enough. I inform him that I have tested all of that, to be told "well, that is the fun with helicopters is figuring out how to get them to fly". Now when you buy something tested and flown before it is packed, you don't expect to be screwing around to get it to hover without shaking itself to pieces. I ask to swap with the other exact model that they have on the shelf, and they tell me that they can't do that. Again, one day after, perfect condition, asking to swap for the same model knowing they can send it back for replacement. Nope. Not an option. They send me on my way with no concern for me at all, my money in their pocket, me with a screwed up helicopter, and the husband telling me that he doesn't know helicopters, he knows rc cars but not offering to help me at all.
The next day, feeling slighted, I send them email to let them know I don't feel happy about how this was handled and I wanted to let them know that they could have made this customer happy. Nothing but excuses back, such as how they can't do anything about defective product, basically saying that when you buy there, you take your chances.
Do hobby stores not realize that is why they are losing business. I can buy on the net if I don't want support. When I pay more from a store it is for peace of mind that comes from dealing with people. Well, not at Eliminator RC in Winnipeg it doesn't.
On a good note, their competition Cellar Dweller swapped out a defective Aerobird fusalage 6 months after I had purchased it because it was glitching. I didn't expect him to but it reinforced my belief in the fact that some people actually get it.
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 12:59 PM
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I feel your pain, but their explanation of the problem is correct. On a Fixed Pitch Helicopter to avoid what is commonly called the "Death Wobble" two things need to be done.

1) You MUST advance the main blades slightly in the direction of rotation, about 1/2"-3/4".

2) The main Blades MUST be kept equally tight or drag will cause one or both to trail back, causing the wobble again.

As to for every single Heli being test flown, come on you didn't REALLY believe that did you?
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 01:14 PM
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Thing is, the blades were tight, this isn't my first fixed pitch and that was the first thing I did. If it was sold as a kit, then I expect to mess around, but sold as ready to fly, tested, etc, should be ready to go, at least mechanicly. Still have the problem, so have something that is of no use to me that I'm stuck with, that they didn't have to be stuck with if they would have taken it back.
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 12:28 PM
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Now wait just a minute... First off, hobby distributors explicitly instruct the local shops to NOT handle warranty issues themselves. They are to instruct the customer to contact the distributor directly. It's one of the few things the distributors do to help the hobby shops.

Margins on hobby items at local shops are like 4%, not the 40% that's pretty typical at "big box" appliance and electronics stores, or Wal-Mart. The big stores can afford to eat a few defective items. Hobby shops can not. The few bucks that shop made from your little helicopter probably burned away powering the store's lights between the time you bought it and the time you brought it back. Then you expect them to pay shipping both ways for warranty replacement? At least if you handled it, there's a likelihood that the distributor would let you keep the defective item, or issue a call tag to have it shipped back to them while they ship you a new one at their expense. They don't offer that same courtesy to local shops.

...and faulting a guy for not being an expert in everything? Come on! It's not humanly possible, not to mention fiscally irresponsible, to be intimately familiar with each and every product on your shelf. At least he was being honest. Would you rather he LIED to you and gave you advice he made up on the spot?
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Old Nov 01, 2005, 06:57 PM
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Hobby stores should have experience to some degree in what they sell. Comparing them to Wal Mart is wrong. That is like saying that it shouldn't matter if a computer store has staff who has NO experience or expertise with computers. Of course it matters. If you are going to sell product, have someone who is familiar with the product. I ran a 6 million dollar retail store front for years and if something was defective out of the box, and a customer wanted to exchange it for the exact same thing, there was never an issue with distribution, and in speaking to the manufacturer rep, there would have been no issue with them either. I also spoke to another hobby store and they said the same, that they would have had no problem sending it back to distribution. Why should I, the consumer, buy something that is ready to go, and then accept packing it, spending time and money on gas/shipping, to take it and ship it to the mfc, and then wait for it to return. If I wanted to do that, I would have gone through mail order. I didn't, I purchased from a hobby store, who all complain that they are losing business to the net, and who don't realize that their advantage is offering customers some level of service. And distributers, at least Horizon, back up their stores, and when a product is not working out of the box, does not expect the customer to go through a hassle to get what they purchased. Margins of 4%, I don't think so, it isn't 40%, but it certainly isn't 4% either. Margins of that level are in the technology arena, but you are dealing with multiple thousand dollar items. You have it backwards, WalMart and big box appliance stores such as best buy, future shop, work in single digit margins, hence their destruction of the mom and pop shops. Well the Hobby Stores are the mom and pop stores today and if they don't do more, then they will be the dinosaurs of the future.
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Old Nov 04, 2005, 12:27 PM
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I understand your frustration in this situation. At our shop we do our best to know how to help the customers and honestly most distributors are happy to replace product that a store uses to fix a customers issue provided that it is a defect and not abuse. That should speak volumes to the customer.

But on the other side nice guys rarely win. I have seen more hobby shops that keep a hard line and almost have a like it or leave it attitude succeed where the helpful guy just gets burned by the customer.

As for the margins on items such as planes and cars you really don't see much markup these days. Your lucky to get 10%. It's the supporting items that still have a decent markup but it takes a lot of $2 props to keep the lights on and the rent paid.

Very few mom and pop hobby shops are really making money. It's the large stores in big metro areas that are making money. For the rest it's a labor of love and a hobby in it's own.

My 2 cents on this endless topic. Go find the place that will give you service. If it's internet or mail order so be it, they've earned it. By now if a LHS does not see the internet as their competition then they will be gone sooner then you can get that next order direct from Hobby Lobby.

Steve
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Old Nov 05, 2005, 10:56 PM
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That is all a customer can ask. A good hobby shop that forms up a relationship with it's customers will end up finding out the ones that abuse privalages. I know that Cellar Dwellar here in Winnipeg understands the amount that I spend, and knows the feedback that I give them. They aren't going to burn a great customer who spends thousands of dollars in their store over a few dollars of profit. Give a customer a "cheers" type of atmosphere and they will return and not complain much about there being a few percent more for their "friends". I work for myself and custom build computers. I know I am 5% higher than the big box stores, my customers know it too, but they also know what my support is worth. I have the same situation where I have been burned by a high maintanance customer. The next time he buys though, my margin is higher to compensate. I make it clear to customers when I start to deal with them that I am a little higher, but I make sure they understand the added value that I bring that a big box won't. I don't think I have lost a customer in over 10 years, and as time goes on, they require less and less of my help. Very empowering feeling. I deliver that type of service, I deal with suppliers that will cover my behind when a product goes bad (again, I pay a little more for my parts for the great service) and everyone ends up happy. Pretty simple rules actually.
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Old Nov 08, 2005, 11:08 AM
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I know this doesn't apply in canada, but in some states, missouri being one of them, if you return an item in a set period of time after purchase, they HAVE to take it back. In Missouri you have 72 hours and the distributor has to take it back regardless of reason or defect.
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Old Sep 30, 2006, 12:41 PM
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Some people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadrack
Against the advice of some friends, I visited Eliminator RC here in Winnipeg to look around. While I was there, I spotted the Venom Night Ranger II fixed pitch heli and decided that since my Dragonfly had bit the dust, and my Blade was being kept in mint shape, so I dropped the 280 CND for it. Took it home, charged the battery, the next day there was no wind so I go out to the ball field to try it out. Now I have flown before, no expert but no dummy either, so everything was checked, now don't forget that these are supposed to be test flown before they leave Venom. Of course, as soon as it starts to lift off, the fusalage starts to gyrate, and then the main rotor won't stop after I drop the throttle. I reset everything, try again, same thing happens, so instead of messing with things I figure I better take this back as something is wrong.
So, I return, now don't forget, this is the next day after I purchase it. I inform the woman (co owner with her husband Mike) about my problem, and she says she doesn't really know helicopters, so can I leave it there. I do, and about 2 hours later receive a call so I return to the store where her husband awaits. He tells me that the main rotor blades weren't tightened up enough. I inform him that I have tested all of that, to be told "well, that is the fun with helicopters is figuring out how to get them to fly". Now when you buy something tested and flown before it is packed, you don't expect to be screwing around to get it to hover without shaking itself to pieces. I ask to swap with the other exact model that they have on the shelf, and they tell me that they can't do that. Again, one day after, perfect condition, asking to swap for the same model knowing they can send it back for replacement. Nope. Not an option. They send me on my way with no concern for me at all, my money in their pocket, me with a screwed up helicopter, and the husband telling me that he doesn't know helicopters, he knows rc cars but not offering to help me at all.
The next day, feeling slighted, I send them email to let them know I don't feel happy about how this was handled and I wanted to let them know that they could have made this customer happy. Nothing but excuses back, such as how they can't do anything about defective product, basically saying that when you buy there, you take your chances.
Do hobby stores not realize that is why they are losing business. I can buy on the net if I don't want support. When I pay more from a store it is for peace of mind that comes from dealing with people. Well, not at Eliminator RC in Winnipeg it doesn't.
On a good note, their competition Cellar Dweller swapped out a defective Aerobird fusalage 6 months after I had purchased it because it was glitching. I didn't expect him to but it reinforced my belief in the fact that some people actually get it.

Sir I am verry sorry you Have these problems . What we told you was that you have to contact Venom to see what they want to do first since they made the Heli not Eliminator ! especialy since there seemed to be nothing wrong from what I could see . Now I am no expert on Heli's nor is my wife but I do have several including gas . Any ways sorry you have a attitude. You said the same stuff about cellar when you were here but it seems it is a end user problem not the heli . We have had situations where venom told us to give the customer a new one . But you have to call them first to get a approval which then they call us .....

If you would of acted like a gentleman we probaly would of even called them for you !

Mike
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Old Oct 04, 2006, 12:09 AM
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Acted like a gentleman? I brought the product back the next day, in mint condition. You tightened up the blades even though I told you that I had already done that. I did talk to Venom and they agreed with me. You had another one in stock and could have easily swapped it out. As for you trying to say I said things about Cellar, you are full of it. There are numerous past customers of yours, plus others in the business that think of you the same way that I do. Remember a customer Ray who you lied to? How about Bill? Just two that share similar situations to mine. The biggest complaint is that you sell product that you have no experience with, and you bad mouth all of your competition. I gave you a chance, and the first thing I noticed was a cluttered store. You can't even compare to Cellar in product selection, knowledge, and as for price, you only compare when it is brought to your attention. They have a clean store, a good location, and don't resort to trying to buy bus stop signs in front of their competition. Cheap and petty, and you did it to both Cellar and Project. You may think you are smart, but others think you are petty. You even tried to go after one of Cellars staff. Ever wonder why he wasn't interested? It has to do with class and making the customer first, two things that you know nothing about, and that comes from someone who managed a multi million dollar retail store for 5 years. Suck it up, take care of your customers, and then maybe you will get some loyalty. Oh, and by the way, clean up your clutter.
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 05:47 PM
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Know What Your Selling!!!

HEY MAN, IF YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR SELLING OR HOW IT OPERATES IT SHOULD NOT BE ON THE SHELF....MARK UP ON HOBBY SHOPS IS 30-100%

I ALSO BEEN TO ELIMINATOR...I LL STAY LOYAL TO DWELLER




Quote:
Originally Posted by mkirsch1
Now wait just a minute... First off, hobby distributors explicitly instruct the local shops to NOT handle warranty issues themselves. They are to instruct the customer to contact the distributor directly. It's one of the few things the distributors do to help the hobby shops.

Margins on hobby items at local shops are like 4%, not the 40% that's pretty typical at "big box" appliance and electronics stores, or Wal-Mart. The big stores can afford to eat a few defective items. Hobby shops can not. The few bucks that shop made from your little helicopter probably burned away powering the store's lights between the time you bought it and the time you brought it back. Then you expect them to pay shipping both ways for warranty replacement? At least if you handled it, there's a likelihood that the distributor would let you keep the defective item, or issue a call tag to have it shipped back to them while they ship you a new one at their expense. They don't offer that same courtesy to local shops.

...and faulting a guy for not being an expert in everything? Come on! It's not humanly possible, not to mention fiscally irresponsible, to be intimately familiar with each and every product on your shelf. At least he was being honest. Would you rather he LIED to you and gave you advice he made up on the spot?
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 09:59 PM
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Yeah, as for mkirsch1, I don't expect people to be expert in everything, but in this day and age with internet, email, and telephones, I expect them to be able to access an expert if they don't know. Not knowing and lying (hey, the guy said that a 280 size Mamba brushless would be a great motor for a MX400!) is garbage. This hobby is costly enough without bad advice.
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Old Oct 31, 2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_d_ventures
HEY MAN, IF YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR SELLING OR HOW IT OPERATES IT SHOULD NOT BE ON THE SHELF....MARK UP ON HOBBY SHOPS IS 30-100%

I ALSO BEEN TO ELIMINATOR...I LL STAY LOYAL TO DWELLER

Mark up on small parts might be 100% but on larger items like kits and engines a shop is lucky to get 15% markup.
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Old Jan 23, 2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadrack
Acted like a gentleman? I brought the product back the next day, in mint condition. You tightened up the blades even though I told you that I had already done that. I did talk to Venom and they agreed with me. You had another one in stock and could have easily swapped it out. As for you trying to say I said things about Cellar, you are full of it. There are numerous past customers of yours, plus others in the business that think of you the same way that I do. Remember a customer Ray who you lied to? How about Bill? Just two that share similar situations to mine. The biggest complaint is that you sell product that you have no experience with, and you bad mouth all of your competition. I gave you a chance, and the first thing I noticed was a cluttered store. You can't even compare to Cellar in product selection, knowledge, and as for price, you only compare when it is brought to your attention. They have a clean store, a good location, and don't resort to trying to buy bus stop signs in front of their competition. Cheap and petty, and you did it to both Cellar and Project. You may think you are smart, but others think you are petty. You even tried to go after one of Cellars staff. Ever wonder why he wasn't interested? It has to do with class and making the customer first, two things that you know nothing about, and that comes from someone who managed a multi million dollar retail store for 5 years. Suck it up, take care of your customers, and then maybe you will get some loyalty. Oh, and by the way, clean up your clutter.

Man I give up I dont know what your problem is. But Good luck in life you attitudes will do you well ......

I don't claim to be a Plane or Heli expert but you seem to be a expert on everything ! I am sorry I even tried to help you.

I also dont have a problem with Cellar I think they are Top notch in there field. You were the one with potie mouth ..



Mike


Eliminator THE BEST HOBBY SHOP IN TOWN
The best on line Hobby shop around


Oh ya I guess You like my buss benches Thanks !
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Old Jan 23, 2007, 04:18 PM
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You really need to learn to spell. BUS, not BUSS, POTTY, not POTIE, THEIR, not THERE, DON'T, not DONT, and you sure shoot down Cellar Dweller to customers, blaming them as for why you guys don't deal with Horizon, or why Horizon thinks of you as a basement hobby store, or are you going to deny that too? My problem Mike is that I bought a product from you that didn't work out of the box, brought it back that day, and you wouldn't swap it for the exact same one on your shelf. That is my problem with you. I ended up being out 250 dollars because of you. Does that give me enough reason to be upset? As for "POTIE" mouth, at what point do you see me swearing?
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