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Old Oct 02, 2005, 01:42 PM
Mr. ExperiMENTAL
Joined Apr 2004
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I Need A Cheap Powerful Brushed or Brushless Motor

Hey guys


I started a project to build a large Edge /Extra style plane. Now I am looking for a motor to power it. Here are the dimentions. I'll post some pictures when I get my camera back. (In my girlfiends car). The wingspan is 72 inches long 1 1/2 thick and 2 1/2 wide. The length of the plane is 75 inches and body starts at 14 inches wide at the nose and tapers 75 inches to a point at the tail. It is about 20 inches high at the highest point. Total weight so far is about 40 oz with just 2 servos in it so fart. Still need to add battery, ESC, motor and 2 more servos, wire, and landing gear. I am estimating total weight about 75 oz so I am searching for a motor under a hundred dolloars that could haul something like that. I have a 45 and 60 amp esc. I am not looking for a rocket I really just want the thing to fly I could really care less how fast it goes just as long as it will fly and I am trying not to have to buy to much more stuff. If you have some suggestions please post a link so I can go have a look if you have one.

Tips
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Old Oct 02, 2005, 01:54 PM
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USA, TX, Live Oak
Joined Oct 2002
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This might work: MPJet AC 28/20-7 Outrunner

http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=3143

You can google to search it from other suppliers
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Old Oct 02, 2005, 04:13 PM
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East Anglia, UK
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Mmm. to really make it an aerobat it is going to need 400 watts or more. That's pushing a 2820 sized motor...

If you have a suitable brushed controller, you might pick up a secondhand astro cobalt 25, those will do up to 600 wats OK..you WILL need a gearbox though.

New geared ones are $160 which is not really worth it.

in brushless, AXI 2826/12 or /14 depending on the voltage is also in the frame. Might get one of those under $100 and no gearbox needed.
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Old Oct 03, 2005, 07:46 PM
Mr. ExperiMENTAL
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Here are a few pics of the bird I am building

Tips
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Old Oct 03, 2005, 10:06 PM
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Indianapolis, IN
Joined Aug 2005
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looks pretty good. Check out the endoplasma thread in power systems. Some of the guys in there are powering 5lb+ planes that do full on stunting. It's availability is getting somewhat limited, but can be found if searched for, used or new. It's a monster truck 540/05 size, with bigger than normal brushes. I believe it's more powerful than a astro similar sized motor, but haven't tested both. I use one in a 3 1/2 lb plane (54 oz) and it does pretty well on 6-10 cells. Have to use a gearbox, but the gd600 and a new endo, should be less than $80, even less with a used one. I like the guys braggin about their b/l setups when I pull out my ole buggy motor and show em what real power is like in a big plane.

Todd
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Old Oct 03, 2005, 10:24 PM
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Funny you guys brag about an old kyosho endoplasma motor. If you want to use car motors, get some real power in the thing Obviously nobody wants to replace the brushes every 5 flights, so maybe some of the hot modified motors aren't for you. Just look for some of the higher quality buggy motors out there. You'll get probably twice the power of the endoplasma even on the same winds.
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 01:18 AM
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I know about real power, and the ones that have it need the brushes replaced every 5 runs. Try a straight axle speed car with a 8t on 20 cells. One of the guys using the endo on a 8 cell, 45amp+ setup has close to 100 on the original brushes. The only down side to a normal buggy motor, is the size of the brushes. Granted, if you get one that has the p94 brushes, they are the size the endo uses. The big factor in the superiority of the endo, is the size of the comm...no other motor out there has the big comm like the endo. This means that it has better conductivity, less heat at same amps. No buggy motor likes 50amps for very long, the endo can and will handle it. The speed gems line from trinity is getting great results, and I have an old 15t double wind with the smaller brushes, with similar power to endo. No length tests as far as replacing the small brushes, but seem to be ok after 5 flights. You must have had a bad experience using too soft brushes or something to say that.
And that's the best part about "an old kyosho motor" just that the "new" high dollar technology, which has been out for over 10 years, makes little difference in power if you know how to set up a brushed system.
Sorry if I appear to be offended, but I am. The endo, although hard to find, is THE best buggy/truck motor out there for a .40-60 size plane, as well as a 4lb+ monster truck. It will handle 10 cells @40 amps geared/propped properly with little more maintenance than any brushless, giving you 480 watts of power.

Todd
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 04:04 AM
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East Anglia, UK
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Totally agree. Decent brushes and commutator are a real plus at high currents.

However you can get good results off a softer wound motor using more volts as well...there is no reason not to got to 12 or even 16v...Astro Cobalts were mostly designed to stay sub 30A..and astro 15 on 16v/30A is 480watts...45A on 7v is not as good as that..and the cobalt takes the heat better.

Trouble is astro cobalts are NOT cheap unless you find a good one on Ebay.

I think the mag mayhem on 10 cells is not a bad motor either - what's that? - 22T? or is it 27T?

Less chance of brush burning at sub 30A currents.
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 07:32 AM
Mr. ExperiMENTAL
Joined Apr 2004
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Looks like it is time for a lesson in buggy motors. Have not really heard of em. I assume you are speaking of using car or in this case rc truck motors to get the desired tork. Does anyone have a link to anyone of these so i can take a look. Also any info would be a big helk. How much do thse buggy motors cost

Tips
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 09:13 AM
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Mag Mayhem is a 21T, I believe. The same motor as the old Le Mans 360 IIRC

JimNM
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 09:40 AM
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Julian,

If interested in a cheap power system yet effective....

I would call my local hobby stores around Orlando, Florida such as GRAVES R/C at:

http://www.gravesrc.com/contactus.htm

Make sure you ask for the R/C Car/Truck department!!!!!

They will be glad to ship the motor to you and last time I checked they still have the Endoplasma 16-turn modified brushed motor by Kyosho for $25.99

I would install this motor in the Great Planes GD-600 gearbox and buy the optional pinion gear (12-tooth) such that you will have a 3.8:1 gearbox ratio and swing the APC "E" 12 X 8 propeller and while using no less than 8-Cell, such as the GOLD PEAK (GP-3300mAH, Ni-MH).

Tower sells the GD-600 gearbox....
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...00&FVPROFIL=++

I get the GP-3300mAH, Ni-MH's from The Battery Store....
http://www.batterystore.com/

Your estimated total flight weight is 70 oz. and that's just 4.38 lbs., this same power system lifted my Larger 64 inch wing span World Models Sky Raider MACH-I and is presently flying the low wing version MACH-II.

I would beef up the frontal Fuse a bit....

Best of luck!
Carlos
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 09:53 AM
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Have a look at www.aircraft-world.com, great shop, great customer service, short delivery times and good prices for quality products. I nuy most of my stuff from them.
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 10:36 AM
Mr. ExperiMENTAL
Joined Apr 2004
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Carlos,


Thanks for all the links and advice:

This is what I have on hand. I have:

1 60amp Xpower ESC
1 Phx 45 ESC
2 Polyquest 2600 3s Lipos
2 Polyquest 1800 4s Lipos


In the pictures you see above I have the both rudder and elevator servos and linkages run already. Tested em out they did pretty good. One thing not seen in the picture is balsa ribbing in the front though it still may need some additional strength. Another thing that wull happen is that the canopy section will be lowered to allow more airflow to the rudder and elevator. Not much to gain in the weight department but hopfully will add to the control.

Running the 2600's parallel should use up about 13oz and the other 2 servos should be about 3 oz. So 16 so far then ESC and receiver, wire etc 5 oz. This plane will have no covering. So I am shooting high when I say 70 to 75 oz but I do want that kind of enough power to fly without thinking I am underpowered al the time but it does not need to be a rocket. My wingspan is 72 inches so it is a bit larger than the pne you mentioned may be heavier not sure how do you think this plane would do with a plane my size.

Tips
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingtips24
Carlos,


Thanks for all the links and advice:

This is what I have on hand. I have:

1 60amp Xpower ESC
1 Phx 45 ESC
2 Polyquest 2600 3s Lipos
2 Polyquest 1800 4s Lipos

Running the 2600's parallel should use up about 13oz and the other 2 servos should be about 3 oz. So 16 so far then ESC and receiver, wire etc 5 oz. This plane will have no covering. So I am shooting high when I say 70 to 75 oz but I do want that kind of enough power to fly without thinking I am underpowered al the time but it does not need to be a rocket. My wingspan is 72 inches so it is a bit larger than the pne you mentioned may be heavier not sure how do you think this plane would do with a plane my size.

Tips
Okay, assuming the Endoplasma + GD-600 + Polyquest 2600 in the 3S2P configuration (assuming 3.8:1 ratio and APC "E" 12 X 8 propeller) would certainly be around 40-42 Amps depending on how well those Plyquest hold up there "Under Load Voltage"

My MACH-I and MACH-II sport trainers (Glow-To-Electric conversions) weigh 5.56 lbs. and 4.68 lbs. respectively, therefore, your 4 + lbs. would fly it with very good authority.

Carlos
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Old Oct 04, 2005, 11:19 AM
Mr. ExperiMENTAL
Joined Apr 2004
1,715 Posts
Carlos,

I am a very happy man right now I will call within the hour. This is just great I can't wait to get this thing going. This time I will take picturs of her in the air.

Tips
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