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Old Sep 22, 2005, 04:12 PM
Gromer
San Jose, CA
Joined Sep 2005
13 Posts
UltraCoat vs. MonoKote vs. Econocoat ???

Which is better?

Can you mix them on the same cover job?
Regards, Gromer
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 04:16 PM
Ninja of the Nasty
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Joined Jan 2004
10,652 Posts
Ultracoat has my vote... i think Monokote's Shrinking temp is too high for use on Epp planes... not positive though, and Econokote feels rubbery i think, but is available at the usual hobby shops...

Ultracoat i feel is stronger, and easier to apply.... and i have used econokote as trim/detail designs on plane with an ultracoat base...

JOe
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 04:22 PM
Rat Dude
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AZ
Joined Jul 2004
596 Posts
I've used them all. Econokote is absolute trash for covering foam - I used it on my first Zagi and every cactus and rock I hit made a nice tear. It just doesn't hold up well.

Ultracote on the other hand, is on my second slope wing - the Slope Slayer. It has gone through ultimate hell and seen more hardships than the Zagi ever did. It still looks somewhat decent. It will need to be recovered soon...but the Ultracote looks 1000 times better after 8 months of abuse than the econokote did in 1 month.

Monokote I've only used on balsa construction for slimers. It worked well there...but I've never put it on foam so I can't give you an apples to apples comparison.

I would just go with the Ultra...it's good stuff.
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 04:22 PM
Confirmed Chronic
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Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,253 Posts
Agree with everything JOe said. One guy at my slope, though, used Monokote Lite on EPP and the shrinking temp was apparently not so high as to melt the foam, but regular Monokote is out AFAIK. Econokote isn't too bad, but is a little harder to get a good finish from than Ultracote, and doesn't go around the curves nearly as well. IME, they all look like dung after a season of flying anyway. Heck, unless you're landing on grass your covering will start to look tattered after the first flying session.
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 04:48 PM
Striving to Rip the Bring
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San Diego, socal, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, the Orion arm, Milky way, Universe
Joined Apr 2003
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monocote is heavy, and shrinks at foam melting heat. however, klique found a way to cover wings in mono and sent me one...still looks great after 4 months or so of flying.

My experiences with ultracoat have been far superior to those with econo. Easier to apply, better finish, and much greater durability.

--Alex
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 05:30 PM
Gromer
San Jose, CA
Joined Sep 2005
13 Posts
Econo, Ultra, Monokote

Thanks for the experienced comments. You guys are great for getting back to me so fast!! Regards, Gromer
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 06:40 PM
Feeling FrSky
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
Joined Feb 2003
20,091 Posts
What is the application? I.e. is this for an EPP plane, balsa plane, sheeted plane, or ???

Knowing the application is really the first requirement, IMHO, as each covering is better suited to some apps than others.

Steve
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 06:51 PM
Registered User
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San Francisco, CA
Joined Jul 2005
149 Posts
I've used Ultracote and Monocote... I agree with surfimp on this one, each covering is better suited to some applications than others. Ultracote works best on covering EPP. I used Monocote on gas powered planes in the past. It works well on built up wings (attaching to balsa). It held up well, and was easy to clean the exhaust slime off. It shrinks up and makes a nice supertight finish, but requires a higher temp...not good for EPP. These days, flying slope planes I prefer Ultracote. More versatile and I believe its lighter as well.
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 07:19 PM
Gromer
San Jose, CA
Joined Sep 2005
13 Posts
MonoKote, Ultracoat, Econocoat

My application is for a WingWarrior Raider EPP. I bought MonoKote for a balsa sailer I'm building (House of Balsa 2x6) but I want to use it for the EPP Raider. Regards, G.
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 07:27 PM
It could happen...
InTheLift's Avatar
Torrance, California
Joined Jan 2004
7,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
What is the application?
Now there's the right question.

For the EPP, I would say Monokote is out...it's a high heat covering. Ultracote is probably your best option. The Econocote might be a better choice for a balsa sheeted foam wing or the like...it just doesn't seem to have the durability of the Ultracote.
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 07:29 PM
Cho Oi! Hay Qua!
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Here
Joined May 2003
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I used econokote on my EPP wings before. I just spray 3m77 on the wing, slap on the covering, burnish it down while hitting it with a heat gun. But yes it does tear easier if you fly over rocks and stuff. I flew off of grass so it didn't get scratched up.

Ultracote,, go for it! Easy around the corners on the tips and pretty tough..

-Tomi
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Old Sep 23, 2005, 11:39 AM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
I took Rite wing's (Klique's) advice and started using monocoat for Everything!!! In my opinion, he was totally right and, I am stoked. I had my doubts too!!! It is a bit heavier, it's true. The stiffness alone makes it worth it, to capture more performance, not less, even in light lift!
I work it down on foam totally covered in 77 using a credit card until it is stiff and TIGHT, do it with the wings in their wing beds to keep everything perfect. I use the Iron on 325-350 and it comes out GREAT and is CRAZY tough if applied properly with PLENTY of adhesive!!!
I pound more rocks, cati and other mean stuff constantly and it holds up quite well. Learning to DS???, use mono!! I know the wings come out stiffer too!!! Plus you get a bigger roll, same price. I like it so much I get excited just by the weird ammonia smell it has. Like I said, I started in major doubt but I trusted Klique and I am soooooo glad .
Many times on commercial builds I use mono coat on the bottom and ultra on top to save weight and stay tough. I only use mono on my own stuff. The MONO ALWAYS goes on better for me personally. When hot, it gets a liquid like property and cools VERY smooth. I was worried about melting my foam too but, it never happend on any of the Bees and wing warrior wings I've ever built, HP too!!! That is a LOT of wings, over 100!!! Best of all, it will not shrink while roasting in your car, unlike many others. Potato chip anyone??? If I were you I'd at least give it a chance for $12. Just keep the iron under 350 and if you are not happy peel it off while using a heat gun to keep the glue activated, no ploblem.
Just look at this Bee, I just built it with mono and tell me you have seen a better covering job with the others, maybe the same but not better or tougher!!! It's hard to get much smoother than glass !
Now that you got me going check the other mods. I put the servos into the Bee cutouts upside down and tunneled the golden rods diagonally through the wing, between a BURRY ribbon I-beam spar, to reach the top surface. All is perfectly burried and clean. I can not even hear this little baby go by unless it is moving at over 40MPH!!!
By the way, that Bee, the ULTRA, weighs 17 OZS and has a speed range that blew my mind. I could almost stop it in a GENTLE 5 mph wind and I could also scare myself silly in a front side DS groove with the same wind . I'll bet it recovers from a hit in NO TIME flat.
I think the local birds are starting to get a little jealous. I have been DSing with cliff sparrows regularly now, competitive little suckers, still have a step on me but, the hawks don't. They pretend not to care but, I know they do . Just ask big Wave, he saw the sparrows DS with me the last time we flew toghther, no BS. I did several mods on this wing to get it to fly like it does and at 17 OZS it is too light to hurt itself in all but the MAJORIST chrashes. Ming's super dense foam helps alot too!!!
If there is ANY interest I'll post many great mods and build strategies. I feel I have Maxed out combat wings and many foam speedsters. I do have a JW 60" coming for winter Lookout Pat and that record, a pipe dream I know .
I would love you guys to prove me wrong and make things EVEN BETTER!!!! PM me if you have any, ideas/interest or just check an old thread like the Balistic bat. A thread I started but gave up on cause it was not being used. Oh well,) I tried and, I'll try again. Moding out the NEW Windrider Fox would be SWEET and rewarding I'm SURE!!! Let's do EEEEET!!!!
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Old Sep 23, 2005, 07:04 PM
Gromer
San Jose, CA
Joined Sep 2005
13 Posts
MonoKote vs. Ultracoat vs. Econocoat

Thanks for the most complete reply. I will take your advice and use Monokote. - G.
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 10:24 PM
PNF
infopimp's Avatar
Los Gatos, CA
Joined May 2005
4,422 Posts
Hmmm... GOOP + tons of 77 + Mono + GOOP sounds like it would really hold up.
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Old Sep 25, 2005, 11:12 AM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
I think the goop move works well with molded foam. Everthing sticks to heated goop like CRAZY. I would make sure to thin it well so your wing does not gain too much weight in the process of covering it with the goop. You can go with or without the 77 doing this move.
One big warning though. Ian was telling me the goop on a cut foam wing will dry on the surface first then inside the pores. As the inside stuff dries it emits gas that will expand the outer skin of the foam and can distort it!!! Ian pioneered this move on a Bee, that is a molded wing with no external pores, so there was no distortion and it looked AWESOME. Just like mine in the above pic. The goop melts under the iron and came out SUPER stuck and VERY GLASSY!!! He used ultra coat, I have not been able to convert him to mono, YET!!!
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