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Old Sep 20, 2005, 12:32 PM
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My 2nd brushless ESC was the Pheonix 35. First one was a TMM 12 amp which I wish I shouldn't have ever sold. But going to bigger power systems I bought the Pheonix 35. First few flights off of my electric heli, the BEC decides to act up.

Cause Of Crash #1 = $50+ to fix my helicopter. BEC Crapped out

I got the ESC repaired and sold the heli because I couldn't take it anymore with the glitching from the controller. Everyone knows that it does glitch on a heli. Even with a Ferrite Core I still got glitches here and there. So the heli was sold and I bought a GWS Formosa. First flight of the morning, flew for about 8 minutes, glitch!

Crash Of Crash #2 = glitch = broke my darn plane!

Fixed up the plane, flew 2nd flight, I flew it straight up gain some altitude, Controller burns out, spiral nose down into the ground.

Cause Of Crash #2 = Controller quits, BEC Doesn't work - Totalled my plane but I managed to fix it, plane kinda look okay now.

I was running 3 micro servos, Hacker A30-28s with 10x5E APC prop, and TP2100 3s Gen2. If you look up the amperage numbers, this setup only pulls around 20 amps full throttle. I flew 1/2 - 3/4 throttle so there could be no way that I over amped or over servo'ed the ESC. Now this is the ESC that I sent to them and got it back within a week. I was happy! But this time, the lady Janice there keeps sending to the wrong address. I don't know where she sent it the first time but it got sent back to them because it was the wrong address. She never bothered to contact me and went ahead and reshipped it out. TO THE WRONG ADDRESS AGAIN! I live in San Angelo, TX. She sent it to a adress in Austin, TX. Now, in order to ship something out, you gotta have a return address written on the package/box. My address was written on the box and on a note inside the box. Go figure!

So she sent it out to the wrong address on the 6th of this month. And it's been going around the states, who knows where, instead of to my house. I only have 1 plane, and that one controller. Without it, I can't fly it, cuz I have no other! I've waited for too long. I told her when she gets it, she can just keep it. I don't want it no more.

Yes, the repair was free of charge. Service was great, but comon! Crashed my heli and plane because a faulty ESC? and Sending it to 2 different address's besides mine! after repairs/replacement??

Don't get me wrong, Castle Creation is a great vendor. I could and would buy another one, (she can keep that one she keeps sending somewhere for her self) but I don't want another Pheonix 35 to crap out on me again. I put too much work, well everyone does, on my plane to crash twice a day or more after that.

I moved onto Hacker ESCs and possibly Cool Runnings USA and Hyperions.

Thanks for reading. I will stay away from CC myself from now on. When they come up with better ESC, I will give it a try once more in the future.

-Tomi
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 11:48 AM
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Nr Windsor, Great Britain (UK)
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Im with you...too many bad experiences with Castle Creations...particularly 25 and 35 amps...sold the lot and replaced them with Hyperion...they are working really well, without any hassle. I will not touch another CC esc.

Roger
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 12:39 PM
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Now for the CC10, I could bare getting those. I don't mind the 10 amps. But I'm not a light flyer. I like lots of juice, but if the controlers don't last as long as people say then I can't afford to use those and crash my planes/heli's with them. Sorry CC but this is my experience.
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 12:55 PM
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You guys just make me laugh a bit As the end user it's your job to make sure everything is in good workiing order BEFORE you take off!

Many of the problems can be traced back to the users setup. 3 small micro servos running on 12 volts is just about the limit for the smaller controllers BECs--they have to drop the voltage down to 5 volts for the radio and in the process the extra voltage is converted to heat. Micro servos often draw a lot of current as the motors are not too good. Add some binding linkage in the plane or heli and you have a possible failure.

As you get much above 8 volts you have to become very careful about the setup! As for radio glitches often the problem is noise generated in the motor/controller. By the very nature of the BEC in the controller the noise can be conducted via the wires to the radio. This is not a new problem--it has been around since people started flying electrics. The best solution to solve this problem is optical isolation of the RX from the controller--but that requires a seperate power source for the radio and many don't want the bother.

Another problem is the use of what I would call rather non standard Rx antennas. On the small planes I often see setups where the Rx antenna is wrapped around a tube or otherwise made shorter. These are all the same as cutting it off to a much shorter lenght. All this does is make the Rx more likely to glitch! For the most part the same goes for the "short" heli antennas--they reduce the range of the radio also. In many cases the setups still work ok because the radios have become much better--but sometimes you get into to trouble. Before you blame all your problems on one part you should loook at the whole system.

One last thing--a range check would have usually shown a "glitch" problem before cuasing a crash. It is your job to check your plane!

Steve
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 01:05 PM
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Steve,

HOw do you know my plane has binding. How do you know I'm flying with my antenna short? How do you know we don't know jack about ESCs? How do you know I don't check my radio. You think I paid $400-$600 for my plane and think it'll fly perfect? Hell naw. Whoever is in the electric hobby and doesn't check their equipment before flying shouldn't be flying. I don't know if you fly heli or not. But flying heli's take more time to check over than planes.

laugh at yourself and not at others who you don't know about.

-Tomi
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomi
Steve,

HOw do you know my plane has binding. How do you know I'm flying with my antenna short? How do you know we don't know jack about ESCs? How do you know I don't check my radio. You think I paid $400-$600 for my plane and think it'll fly perfect? Hell naw. Whoever is in the electric hobby and doesn't check their equipment before flying shouldn't be flying. I don't know if you fly heli or not. But flying heli's take more time to check over than planes.

laugh at yourself and not at others who you don't know about.

-Tomi

Actually I have helis and planes--I do fly just about everything.

I was not trying to be a smart ass but it seemed that from you posting that all your troubles were being caused by one vendors product! I doubt that. In most cases it takes several problems together to cause a loss of control that results inn a crash. Any one problem by it's self would not bee much of an issue--but together they are. I know all too well from my own churches that there were usually warnings that went unobserved.

Most speed controller glitches don't cause a complete loss of control with a resulting crash. In nearly all cases the noise is brief and the flight can continue and get the plane back safely.

Steve
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 02:36 PM
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Tallahassee, FL
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tomi, Is that your antenna wire twisted around the tailboom 400 times?
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 02:38 PM
Dimension Engineering
Akron, Ohio
Joined Jan 2002
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Linear regulators and 3s or higher just doesn't give you any headroom. Going to Hyperion or some other brand that may be adding a heat spreader on top of their linear reg will band-aid the problem, but its really an issue of the wrong technology for the job. We don't use a giant rheostat to regulate the speed of our motors. A linear BEC is largely the same thing, just done in silicon.

A proper switching regulator will solve the problem very neatly. One can't even use the excuse that switchers are too heavy and expensive anymore, as a ParkBEC (which we make) is only a shade over six grams with full wires and only costs $16.99

"Micro" servos in the seventeen gram range, such as an HS-81, often draw more power than their "standard" size counterparts. A "3A" (current rating) linear BEC doesn't do you any good at 3s if its only good for four watts of power dissipation (.5A at 3s) which is about where the linear reg on a P35 starts to get into trouble.
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headless
tomi, Is that your antenna wire twisted around the tailboom 400 times?

Yes. Actually 525 times. My RX antenna is 15 foot long.


My antenna is routed from about 1-2 inches fromt he RX case, to the outside of the canopy, and taped to the tail. the rest of the antenna hangs behind the plane.

-Tomi
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 02:46 PM
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Ahh ,, u'r refering to my Heli.

I Never flew that heli any further than about 50 feet. I flew alot indoors. That's a full range Electron 6 RX as you can tell. I did get glitches at first when it didn't have a Ferrite core. But I fixed the glitch with one. but on the plane, same controller, I got glitches.

I'd rather have my full antenna in tacked than a Micro Base Loaded antenna
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comatose
Linear regulators and 3s or higher just doesn't give you any headroom. Going to Hyperion or some other brand that may be adding a heat spreader on top of their linear reg will band-aid the problem, but its really an issue of the wrong technology for the job. We don't use a giant rheostat to regulate the speed of our motors. A linear BEC is largely the same thing, just done in silicon.

A proper switching regulator will solve the problem very neatly. One can't even use the excuse that switchers are too heavy and expensive anymore, as a ParkBEC (which we make) is only a shade over six grams with full wires and only costs $16.99

"Micro" servos in the seventeen gram range, such as an HS-81, often draw more power than their "standard" size counterparts. A "3A" (current rating) linear BEC doesn't do you any good at 3s if its only good for four watts of power dissipation (.5A at 3s) which is about where the linear reg on a P35 starts to get into trouble.

Same controller on my Trex with No problems whatesoever after CC repaired it. 4 servos and a Gyro. I guess it wears out overtime? Why is it advertised up to 3 servos on 3s then?? just wondering.

-Tomi
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 04:36 PM
Dimension Engineering
Akron, Ohio
Joined Jan 2002
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That is odd. Unless it wasn't a BEC overheat and was due to their driver software issue, the repair shouldn't make a difference. Unless it was just a cooler day when you were flying after, or it was just a dodgy regulator chip. The later seems unlikely, but its possible.

3 servos on 3s is a drastic generalization. First, 100 different brands and models of servo will draw 100 different currents for the same output torque and dynamic load. If you put three HS-55s on a model, then took them off and put on three HS-81s, the draw from the 81s will be greater. Much greater if you're making them move quickly. Three HS-55s from 3s would be extremely unlikely to cause a BEC shutdown. Three 81s in a heli doing aerobatics... I'd be a lot less confident.

The other thing worth mentioning is that the current doesn't make the regulator shut down, the heat does. So if they changed the software such that the whole ESC was running more efficiently (with less heat) then the amount of power dissipation you can get from the BEC before it shuts down will increase.
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 04:46 PM
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Don't forget voltage under load of the battery...if you fly 'easier' on a pack, you will actually have worse BEC heating issues because # of watts needing dissipation would be higher. Flying at WOT would bring the pack's voltage down, helping the BEC by leaving less dissipation necessary. I know my high performance planes hover around 9.4v on a 3s pack when in flight because i flog them. On the flip side, my little 3d planes will hang around 10.5-10.8v because the packs are barely touched under normal flight conditions....it's a big juggling match.
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 04:48 PM
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the servos were BMS 371s. similar to HS-55s. This ESC has never seen servos any bigger than these BMS 371s and HS55s.

The last crash, I checked the ESC at home. Pluged it up. Did it's normal audible sound and armed. The motor wouldn't turn but would stutter. if I rappidly give throttle and throttle back, it sometimes turns the motor. The servos move really reallly really slow. So it must be some sort of BEC problem and other problems. It should be the BEC because only the aileron servo moved, but very slow. The elevator and rudder servo didn't move. But the crash did not cause this. It totally crapped out in the air.

-Tomi
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 04:50 PM
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Hmm. If the BEC was functioning enough to allow one servo to move, it should allow all of them to move. They all share the same power rail. Very strange. Have you tried any non-crashed servo's on it to see if any of them will move (slowly or quickly)?
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