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Old Sep 14, 2005, 11:49 AM
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Control LE connecting to wing's TE...

While in the build process of adding my ailerons and flaps, I've been thinking of the best way to connect them to the wing.

I'd like to have them fit into the wing's TE leaving no gap if possible.

The pic is kind of what I am after with my idea for connecting the aileron's/flap's LE to the wing's TE. It's not my idea I'm sure, but I can't find any info on a build process for it.

Using robart hinge points, and having the ailerons/flaps sitting in this "pocket" would eliminate the need to "seal" the hinge line as the control surface sits into the TE of the wing.

Does anybody have any pics, or other information as to how to best build this? I have an idea as to how to go about it, but if others have done this already I'd like to know what's the best approach to take with this, and how they went about it.

Of course, if there are any other ways of doing this, I'd appreciate info on those as well. I'm open to suggestions as I'm only in the design stage of this part of the build.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 04:46 PM
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Hi Mark,
Brian Taylor does this for his scale Spitfires. these photos are of the tailplane of my 69" Spit. He uses Robart hinges fitted in to slots in the elevator. The 'pocket' is formed by sheeting past the rear spar i.e. overhanging top and bottom and is a bit fragile during the sanding stage. The aileron is similar but it is a 'Frise' type so the overhang is only on the top surface. Hope this helps.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 04:49 PM
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PS: I had not finished sanding it here, hence the chunky leading edge and tips! Rudder is also the same.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Binnie
Hi Mark,
Brian Taylor does this for his scale Spitfires. these photos are of the tailplane of my 69" Spit. He uses Robart hinges fitted in to slots in the elevator. The 'pocket' is formed by sheeting past the rear spar i.e. overhanging top and bottom and is a bit fragile during the sanding stage. The aileron is similar but it is a 'Frise' type so the overhang is only on the top surface. Hope this helps.
Hey, thanks for the pics. I think I saw your work in another thread while doing a search.

That is something I have considered. I was thinking of making the sheeting go past the TE, and then add a small bit of triangular stock along the span (just under the overlap) and then wrap some sandpaper around the flap/aileron to sand it to a final shape.

I like the look of a "pocket" for the LE of the controls to sit into. No messing with covering the hinge line (although I guess it is "covering" it...just in a different manner).
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 05:16 PM
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In the Spitfire's case it has to be done to look scale. If you are doing it just to look good then there is no need to round the 'pocket' as you would not see in there. BT has the elevator leading edge rounded but just leaves the pocket square with no support for the sheeting. The tailplane is nearly 1/2 inch thick at the rear spar and it is a tight fit. The sheeting is chamfered on the inside. Lets see if I can squeeze the plan in to my scanner as I think there is a cross section!

With my other full-size gliding head on it is a good idea anyway to aerodynamically seal the control hinges to improve overall drag and control authority. Most modern gliders use Mylar tape which must be in place as the friction it provides helps prevent flutter. Older gliders use lower surface fabric 'Tesa' tape (with an upper surface skin overhang) and even older wooden gliders use household door draught excluder strip! Older than that they did not bother at all!
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Binnie
In the Spitfire's case it has to be done to look scale. If you are doing it just to look good then there is no need to round the 'pocket' as you would not see in there. BT has the elevator leading edge rounded but just leaves the pocket square with no support for the sheeting. The tailplane is nearly 1/2 inch thick at the rear spar and it is a tight fit. The sheeting is chamfered on the inside. Lets see if I can squeeze the plan in to my scanner as I think there is a cross section!

With my other full-size gliding head on it is a good idea anyway to aerodynamically seal the control hinges to improve overall drag and control authority. Most modern gliders use Mylar tape which must be in place as the friction it provides helps prevent flutter. Older gliders use lower surface fabric 'Tesa' tape (with an upper surface skin overhang) and even older wooden gliders use household door draught excluder strip! Older than that they did not bother at all!
Yeah, I'm doing a scale P51H and while this is not true scale, I really do not want a big angled chunk missing or 45 degree angles cut into the control surfaces. I'd like it to look as scale as possible without resorting to building true scale control hinges as I feel this model is not really large enough to bother with. I could just leave the the sheeting overlapped, but it would be pretty thin to put covering over. I'd feel better if this wing TE was a bit more substantial.

At some point I'll be working on a very scale P51D using a parts manual I got from someone who is restoring a real P51H. When I do the "D" version from scratch, I'll be able to see every part there is on a "D" mustang (using this manual), so I'll start with a completely different approach right from the planning and drawing stage.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 05:38 PM
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Managed it! Lucky it was in the top corner. I think I have built mine with the surfaces a bit thinner and the sheet overhang a bit longer than shown so they are more enclosed. The aileron sits on two hinge bearers with brass tube in them and are hinged with a single wire rod, the upper sheeting covers these. The flaps are split type (lower surface only) so there is no hinge gap.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Binnie
Managed it! Lucky it was in the top corner. I think I have built mine with the surfaces a bit thinner and the sheet overhang a bit longer than shown so they are more enclosed. The aileron sits on two hinge bearers with brass tube in them and are hinged with a single wire rod, the upper sheeting covers these. The flaps are split type (lower surface only) so there is no hinge gap.
Cool. Thanks for the pic of the drawing. That is how I envision it, although I am trying to get a "perfect" pocket. Mainly, I'm trying to see how to do it, just so I know how to do it...you know?

On your drawing I can see how it will allow for more movement as the "pocket" doesn't entirely enclose the LE of the control surface. I have to figure out how much the wing TE pocket can extend around the control LE and still allow enough movement of the control.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 05:50 PM
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The Spider's Lair

I guess the P-51 is similar. Yes, I will probably discover how tight the joints are when I connect the radio up! Hope I don't have to go back to the drawing board. Thrown in a gratuitous image of the project as it was when I temporarily stopped building a couple of months ago due to other commitments. Went up there a couple of days ago and the spiders had moved in!
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