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Old Sep 13, 2005, 08:06 PM
Hodgehound # 3
_Lunchbox_'s Avatar
Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
4,439 Posts
Just flew my e-starter for the first time, now I have some questions.

I just finished the first flight of my e-starter. This is my first flight with a plane with ailerons. Overall, I am pleased with the flight. It did seem that the plane was underpowered though. It had a tendency to stall when climbing and when banking. It may be my dumb thumbs, but it was stalling at a relatively mild angle...say 45-50 deg. I do realize that the plane will not do straight vertical, but I really had to baby it to climb and I lost a good bit of altitude when turning also.
I am running it with the provided GWS EPS400c with a "D" gearing. I am using the included 1060 prop and a 9.6v 730Mah battery.
According to the GWS website the 1060 is a direct-drive prop. should I be using a 9070 or 1047 prop with this motor? will that battery handle the current draw from a 1047? According to the GWS website, that setup will pull about 11.6 amps. That is @ 15c right?
I would like to upgrade to Lipos, but it isn't an option right now as I have been grounded from the credit cards, paypal, and the checkbook.
I do have a 1600 Mah 9.6v battery, but I don't want to use it unless I have to. I would have to cut out part of the battery section in the plane in order to use it, and I wanted to wait to do any cutting until I did have a Lipo and a brushless motor for it. I do want to fly in the meantime though, so I need some help getting this plane flying better, or I'll wind up planting it.
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Last edited by _Lunchbox_; Sep 13, 2005 at 08:34 PM. Reason: Just thought I'd include a couple of pics also as I am proud I didn't crash it
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 08:47 PM
500FT & Climbing
SuperHornet's Avatar
Australia/Victoria
Joined May 2005
702 Posts
Jstone


I wouldnt cut out foam from your estarter just yet, I would go for a 3s 11.1v lipo and run the 9x7 gws prop, which would give you excellent performance, plus the lipo being lighter.
Your 400 series brushed motor will handle 11.1v easy as stated by gws technical support.
The 1047 will give you more thrust & less speed than the 1060, 9x7 is by far the best prop I have tried so far.
Just open the hole bigger in the nose and possibly cut 2 air intakes on the sides to allow the motor to cool with proper airflow.

SuperH
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 09:03 PM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Apr 2005
4,523 Posts
A 10x4.7 propeller should draw less current than your 10x6, and so would most likely take away power from your airplane, with all else being the same. I guess the only exception to this would be if the 10x6 was too much and the motor overheated and lost efficiency, but I doubt that. I have to agree with SuperHornet, though; go to lipos and you'll never look back!
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 09:07 PM
Hodgehound # 3
_Lunchbox_'s Avatar
Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
4,439 Posts
I'd like to upgrade to lipos, but lack the funds. Actually.... I'd LOVE to upgrade to lipos.
Is there a difference in the SF and the Direct drive props? I know the SF props look more curved and the DD look more straight,,,
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 10:06 PM
Remember the 131st TFW MO ANG
NanoSio2's Avatar
USA, MN, Apple Valley
Joined May 2005
988 Posts
Hi - An E-Starter was also my first aileron plane. Stick with it - it is a great little bird. I am thinking about buying another one (first one took quite a beating with some major crashes, and it is carrying a lot of epoxy around now, but still flies) and building it up as a bush plane. I will probably put some larger foamy wheels on it, flaperons, and go brushless, plus give it a cool paint scheme.

Anyway - mine had the 400 motor as well and it was nose heavy. I had to add weight to the tail to get it to balance. It climbed like a pig but was fun to land because of a solid glide and scale appearance. A buddy just built one and used the GWS 350 motor (lighter). Admittedly, he is running a 2-cell, 1400mah lipo, but I noticed a difference in mine just by moving from a NiCd to a 8.2 700mah NiMH. You may want to consider the lighter motor - I think the motor is probably around ~$10. He did not have to add any weight, so his is lighter, and although it does not go vertical either, it climbs with a lot more authority. I forget what my All Up Weight was but I think it was around 19oz, which is pretty heavy for an E-Starter. I think his is around 14-15. Also, he opted to not use the struts, and instead secures the wing with rubber bands.

Good luck!

Scott

Edit P.S. I was flying it with the stock 10x6 prop as well
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 10:55 PM
Senior Moment Member
SF Bay Area, CA
Joined Jul 2002
1,337 Posts
Your motor is probably starving for voltage preventing it from reaching maximum RPM. Please be aware that your 730mAh battery pack cannot supply 15C worth of current. The most you're going to get is 5 or 6C from those cells before the voltage starts to drop off significantly. Since you're on a tight budget, try either a KAN 1050mAh or GP 1100mAh battery pack. These will weigh less than your 1600 pack and they can supply 15A and 20A respectively.
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 11:10 PM
Registered User
rgoble's Avatar
Dayton Montgomery, Ohio, United States
Joined Sep 2004
259 Posts
Somone once told me that GWS Direct Drive props are thinner so you can get away with going up a size bigger, however I am not sure if it correct or not. I flew mine with the GWS 400 speed motor and the D gearing, but I used an 1180 DD prop with a 3s1p 1200mAh lipo and it flew decent. Although I did burn out my first motor so that may not be the best idea.

My friends eStarter flew like a brick with the stock motor/prop and a 750mah NiMH. He had to stay at almost full throttle the whole time to keep it in the air. Also as Scott pointed out some people have gotten them to fly better by using the smaller 350 motor.
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Old Sep 13, 2005, 11:29 PM
tic
thunderscreech
tic's Avatar
New Cumberland, PA. US
Joined Dec 2000
10,936 Posts
I would sell the e-starter and buy an RFM surprise 13 or 14 with a Neu motor... It won't stall even at 90 degree climb angles!
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 08:05 PM
Canadian Bacon
flypaper 2's Avatar
Kingston, Canada
Joined Jun 2004
12,746 Posts
Size for size the HD and DD props are more efficient than the SF props. I've found, for the same performance, the throttle is noticeably lower and the batts last longer.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 08:12 PM
Hodgehound # 3
_Lunchbox_'s Avatar
Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
4,439 Posts
I have a couple of extra 350 motor/GBs that I use on my SS laying around. I think I will fix one of them and give it a shot.
I did find that the e-starter was nose heavy and had to add a 1/4 and 1/8 oz sinker to the tail to get it to balance. Even then it is still a little nose heavy.
What size prop is best for a 350 on the e-starter? I'm using a 12x6 on my ss now. that would be too much prop wouldn't it?
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 09:44 PM
Sink stinks
Montag DP's Avatar
United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Apr 2005
4,523 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tic
I would sell the e-starter and buy an RFM surprise 13 or 14 with a Neu motor... It won't stall even at 90 degree climb angles!
Now that would be a good first aileron plane.
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Old Sep 14, 2005, 11:26 PM
Lazy dog
OhioPete's Avatar
Lakewood, Ohio
Joined May 2005
2,409 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoSio2
A buddy just built one and used the GWS 350 motor (lighter). Admittedly, he is running a 2-cell, 1400mah lipo, but I noticed a difference in mine just by moving from a NiCd to a 8.2 700mah NiMH. You may want to consider the lighter motor - I think the motor is probably around ~$10. He did not have to add any weight, so his is lighter, and although it does not go vertical either, it climbs with a lot more authority. I forget what my All Up Weight was but I think it was around 19oz, which is pretty heavy for an E-Starter. I think his is around 14-15. Also, he opted to not use the struts, and instead secures the wing with rubber bands.
Hi! I'm "the buddy" I just weighed my plane with battery at 14.7 oz. I put a 350C "C" gear motor in mine with a 1047SF prop instead of the supplied 400C "D" gear with a 1060DD(IIRC). I added a longer than stock length of CF rod in the wing instead of the bamboo skewer and left off the associated wing attaching pieces. I left off the wing struts as well since all they are is weight and drag with the CF rod in the wing. I use rubber bands to secure the wings. I run either a 2S 1700 Etec or a pair of 2S 700's that I wired in parrallel. As Scott mentioned it will move out pretty good. He even found out that it will fly with the prop on backwards I had Scott maiden my plane since he's had one a while. I figured he could tell me if it was setup properly. Well, I handlaunched it for him and to his credit he flew it pretty well. He did comment that it seemed awful sluggish and low on power. Well I took a look after he brought it in...dummy me put the prop on backwards After I got that taken care of he flew it again. It moved out very well. His initial climb out was probably at about a 60-70% angle. It's flown well for me since then.
Other than maybe taking the gear off to save a little weight and getting a more powerful battery I don't know of any other way to make it work better. I would invest a couple of bucks in a 350C motor and a prop myself. Step up to lipos when you can afford it.

EDIT: The DD props are noticable "thicker" than the SF props, they have less flex to them and are made to spin at higher RPM's (Direct Drive) than the SF (SlowFlyer) props which are made to run slower on geared motors. They also have more "squared off" ends. I use a 1060DD on my Spitfire which is running a 400C "D" gear with a 3S (11.1 volt) lipo.
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Last edited by OhioPete; Sep 14, 2005 at 11:33 PM.
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Old Sep 15, 2005, 09:02 PM
....PieMaster....
kave_man's Avatar
United States, GA, Warner Robins
Joined Aug 2004
695 Posts
Put the 350 with a c gear in the e-starter and a 9X7 prop. This is what i had for a while.

(brushless)



kenny
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 05:31 PM
Hodgehound # 3
_Lunchbox_'s Avatar
Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
4,439 Posts
Would a 350 "D" work ok with a 1047 prop and a 9.6v battery for the e-starter.?
I was thinking of putting thw 400 "d" on my Slow stick. Would it be ok to put a 1260 prop on that? I can't find a 1260 on any of the 400 motor/GB charts.
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Old Sep 16, 2005, 05:33 PM
Hodgehound # 3
_Lunchbox_'s Avatar
Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
4,439 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tic
I would sell the e-starter and buy an RFM surprise 13 or 14 with a Neu motor... It won't stall even at 90 degree climb angles!
where can I look this plane up at?
My b-day is coming up..... I was thinking of brushless for the e-starter, but.....
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