please post anything that will help anyone interested in rogallo wing flyers ...no affiliation with blac...

to get the ball rolling, here's something on sail material...agree or disagree with what anyone writes, please post...

have tried lots of types of sail material...

conclusion...

best is cellophane or mylar...installed with clear tape

there are 2 kinds of cellophane...

the good kind will resist stretching and indentation...the colored cell will be like mylar in resisting stretching and indentation when pulled or pushed with fingers/fingernails

the bad colored cell will be like saran wrap or leaf bag material and will stretch like taffy with the same force required to barely stretch/indent the mylar style cell

what about other sail materials?

-tyvek (stock for gymallo)...stretches and gets too porous after a few months...plane that flew well now barely flies

-ripstop nylon...heavier, more expensive, more porous and harder to install than the good cell...more rugged...mylar style cell can eventually tear, especially after several months of hard flight including inside and outside loops...

happened so far just once on a several months old, dozens of flights mylar sail, and despite a 1' jagged gash and corresponding big hole in sail forward of cross spar caused by one too many outside loops on a 3' spar long boom gymallo style plane, still flew well enough for a good landing

Check the latest rcmicroworld online magazine, there is a good article by John Worth about the Cootie Rogallo wing, and some good info about the flight characteristics of these wings and many things I didn't know before.

You might have to subscribe to get the article, but that would be a good thing to do if you like Micro R/C

http://www.rcmicroworld.com

or

http://www.cloud9rc.com

I've made a few, and I think nothing works better than a trashbag (ultrathing, ultralight and comes in a variety of colors) and 3m77 to attach it.

Pete, your good luck might have to do with the size of the rogallo wing...

a small rogallo wing could get away with a trashbag sail and 3m77...

here, tend to fly bigger heavier 2' and 3' spar rogallos on heavier li ion batts and have found the trashbag sails sag after a few flights and the 3m77 tends to come loose...maybe it's the low humidity drying out the glue here...the good cellophane or mylar should be at least as light as trash bag and not sag to any extent, at least hasn't here...

Pete P
could you post pictures of your rogallos please?

Is there any specific proportion (length to span / angle at the tip etc) ?
could any one post a sketch please ?

I've built rogallos based on the rubber powered "insect" plans. but now I'd like to try something sleeker - more like the modern day hang-glider - the proportions I'm asking are in this regard

The cootie - also using a rogallo type wing - is certainly one of the more enjoyable indoor flyers I have. It is a quick build, has very nice flying capabilities - even for a beginner. And can take on board various types of equipment. I have flown my cooties with the JMP RX, Coural RX, IR and BitCar equipment. Also, the choice for the motor is not really that critical.

It allows for a lot of experimentation, like adding an elevator or maybe even go for differential thrust using a pair of gondolas on both sides of the fuselage.

Johan

Here are some Rogallo's I built for our dual differential throttle receiver prototypes. They all flew quite well, as long as the nose didn't tuck in.

I dont have them anymore, sadly, they'd veen trashed :-) My largest was a floater about 14" across (rear tip to rear tip) free flight, 7mm DD with a smaller supercap.

Here is my micro Rogallo. Span is 18", weight is 10 grams. Equipment is all Plantraco, .9 gm receiver, 90 mAh Lipo, GB03 motor, mini actuators. Covered with 1/2mil mylar. Flys nicely.

Jerry

the interchangeable sail and fixed wing on the rogallo worked....maiden yesterday on the fixed wing version...here's a link to a post of pics of the plane with both wings (flys well on either wing, sail or fixed wing, just not very well on both wings at the same time)...maybe could be scaled smaller to fly indoors better on either wing though can be flown pretty slowly at current size

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413188

These type models have been of some interest to me for some time. I have been wanting to experiment yet the thing that keeps stopping me are some important angles.
Sail angle of attack. What angle might this be and would it matter if the turning control were rudder or by shifting weight? Reason is I think I want to try one that hinges the sail and would rock left and right for steering.

Angle of the 2 outer spars. I have thought I might be able to use a store bought cheapie delta kite for this project as a way to get started and after doing so the wingspan seems much greater in relation to the "chord". This has trhown me quite a loop and I get disinterested after a bit.
the rogallow wings I have seen modelled look like they have a great deal of back sweep in comparison to the delta kites.

Thrust line. I intend to use a geared motor like a GWS IPS swinging a 10x4.7 prop. this may be a bad choice as the motor might be too far down and be a problem in pitch control.

This may seem a little large to be on this forum but I have seen one that had a span of more than 36" that flew great indoors including some very tight figure 8s on a basketball size arena in a middle school. It had coventional steering (rudder).

Thanks in advance for all input!

Robert

"These type models have been of some interest to me for some time. I have been wanting to experiment yet the thing that keeps stopping me are some important angles.
Sail angle of attack. 10 degrees What angle might this be and would it matter if the turning control were rudder better or by shifting weight? not as good - less responsive and puts more stress on the servos than rudd - search for moogallo in the threads for a weight shifting rogallo Reason is I think I want to try one that hinges the sail and would rock left and right for steering.

Angle of the 2 outer spars. use same size for all 4 spars - if cross spar is longer than the other 3 spars, can be twitchy I have thought I might be able to use a store bought cheapie delta kite for this project as a way to get started and after doing so the wingspan seems much greater in relation to the "chord". This has trhown me quite a loop and I get disinterested after a bit. sail material before fastening to spars should be about 1.5" outside of te of a 2' side spar when measured at a 90 degree angle out from the side spar...or proportional to this for other than a 2' spar sail...mark a straight line from this 1.5" out from te of a side spar point, back to nose of your sail frame, made with equal size spars...most kites have less droop than this and with less droop, insufficient lift and too twitchy the rogallow wings I have seen modelled look like they have a great deal of back sweep in comparison to the delta kites.

Thrust line. in line with boom or maybe a little down I intend to use a geared motor like a GWS IPS swinging a 10x4.7 prop. this may be a bad choice as the motor might be too far down and be a problem in pitch control. this setup on about 850 mah 2s lipos would be about the minimum for outdoor flight but might be enough for indoor flight...dual ips or brushless would be more thrust though might weigh a little more...dual ips d ratio and 1280 works...turning should be ok if you have a big enough rudd and/or are willing to boost steering with a little throttle to create propwash on the rudd...pitch control is pretty easily solved with not giving too much throttle and/or putting in some downthrust

This may seem a little large to be on this forum but I have seen one that had a span of more than 36" that flew great indoors including some very tight figure 8s on a basketball size arena in a middle school. It had coventional steering (rudder).

Thanks in advance for all input! you might want to get a gymallo kit with or without electronics from www.blac.net for a setup that is known to work...your solo ips 1047 should match up reasonably well with this 2' spar rogallo especially for indoor flight...if the sail starts to lose lift after a number of flights, replace with a mylar or similar cellophane sail, or start with the cellophane (it's lighter and has more lift than the stock tyvek gymallo sail) and just save the stock gymallo sail as a handy template for sail additions/repairs.

if you're in the mood (Robert or anyone else), post back to this forum with what you find out and end up doing.

Robert"

Indeed I have my "cello wrap" from the dollar store. Several nice colors. Inexpensive as well.

My intent was to mount the motor as a pusher on the pylon which is why I was concerned about the prop length and pitching.

I went to the Gymallo website and was impressed. Then I saw the parkflyer version "teaser" which is not yet available. I wonder what differences would be expected with that model. I will wait for a bit before I try the Gymallo but it really is a good deal pricewise. I would prefer to try one myself first. For me it will provide a wealth of knowledge. afterwards I will want to compare the Gymallo with mine. There will then be another welth of knowledge gained!

I think for simplicity I will go with a style like the gymallo with the motor mounted up front on the fuse. I do want to make an adustable pylon mount that will swivel up and down for experimentation. I will start @ +10 degrees and allow for about +or- 5 degrees to play with.

I do have a bp21 brushless I could use. If I mount it also on a swivel I could use thrust vectoring to increase turning ability.

Mind you I not only want to fly one of these...I also have some ideas to try out as well. I don't want to get a kit to bash right away and theirs seems to be just right ('cept the sail material)

Thank,s for your input! Very good stuff!

Robert

"Indeed I have my "cello wrap" from the dollar store. Several nice colors. Inexpensive as well. 2 kinds of dollar store cello...1 kind is stretchy like leaf bag/garbage bag...other kind is not stretchy like mylar...either works well (better than stock tyvek in lift) but the non stretchy kind is a little stronger...apply 3/4" clear tape to straight cut line between te of spars attachment points (more easily done before sail clear taped on sail frame) and cut on the tape for a tear resistant te of sail material

My intent was to mount the motor as a pusher on the pylon which is why I was concerned about the prop length and pitching. interesting...am also thinking about converting a puller 3' spar rogallo to pusher by a mount on pylon...want to avoid prop damage

I went to the Gymallo website and was impressed. Then I saw the parkflyer version "teaser" which is not yet available. I wonder what differences would be expected with that model. only apparent nonelectric difference between regular and parkflyer is the spars...regular is 1/8" basswood spars (pretty flimsy but light) and parkflyer is 3/16" spars...electronics are diff too, with bigger motor and batt in parkflyer than regular...the parkflyer has been coming soon for a long time...got the regular kit but never installed the 1/8" spars, instead went to hobby lobby store (not online) and bought some 3/16"x2' spars...so it's easy to make your own parkflyer version even if buy the (only version now available) regular version...do mostly outdoor flying here I will wait for a bit before I try the Gymallo but it really is a good deal pricewise. I would prefer to try one myself first. For me it will provide a wealth of knowledge. afterwards I will want to compare the Gymallo with mine. There will then be another welth of knowledge gained! know what you mean, experimentation is fun
I think for simplicity I will go with a style like the gymallo with the motor mounted up front on the fuse. I do want to make an adustable pylon mount that will swivel up and down for experimentation. I will start @ +10 degrees and allow for about +or- 5 degrees to play with.

I do have a bp21 brushless I could use. If I mount it also on a swivel I could use thrust vectoring to increase turning ability. will be interested in what you come up with...have a bp21 though haven't flown it on anything yet

Mind you I not only want to fly one of these...I also have some ideas to try out as well. I don't want to get a kit to bash right away and theirs seems to be just right ('cept the sail material)

Thank,s for your input! Very good stuff! you're very welcome and please post back with your ideas and progress

Robert"

"interesting...am also thinking about converting a puller 3' spar rogallo to pusher by a mount on pylon...want to avoid prop damage"

The one I saw in the gym once... it was a pusher, direct drive with a typical smallish prop mounted rather high on the pylon. possibly to reduce pendulum effect. Possibly to reduce prop damage or may be to reduce pitch up on sudden throttle advance. A combination of any or all. who knows.

This same model used a hinged sail that was attached to a servo which banked the sail and thus created a weight shift for turning. As I mentioned before this plane was really manuverable. that is why I mentioned going that route myself. Matter of fact the thing only had 2 channels. ESC for motor and the single servo. No long fuse like a gyrocopter. No tail feathers either.
It reminded me of one of those paraplanes which you sit in and use a para foil type parachute for lift.

" will be interested in what you come up with...have a bp21 though haven't flown it on anything yet"
I just got mine as well. Don't yet have the money for the connectors yet. May just solder the ESC direct. Nothing wrong with that, just used to seperate componants

As for the motor hinging, a few years ago I saw an R/C biplane in a british magazine. which used such technology. Supposed to be good. We will see when I apply this somwhere. If not on this model somwhere else.

Robert