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Old Aug 19, 2005, 03:40 PM
JettPilot's Avatar
Miami
Joined Apr 2005
10,432 Posts
Radio Control for UAV, What do you use and how much range do you get ????

What kind of range has everyone been getting with thier RC setups in UAV's ??? Are most of you using off the shelf RC control gear ? I know a UAV is suppose to be autonomous but being able to control it while its far away would be a great thing
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 08:07 AM
Who needs a pilot??
danstrider's Avatar
Alexandria, VA
Joined Jul 2002
1,161 Posts
Normal RC gear should work to outside the limits of vision, even for your large twin (I have a 4m I can speck out and I still have control). I can't see why a hobbiest would change away from standard RC gear except for over-the-hill operation, but I don't think that's the spirit of your question.

Dan
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 09:36 PM
JettPilot's Avatar
Miami
Joined Apr 2005
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Acutally, I am wanting to operate far beyond visual range. I see altitude records where standard RC gear was used 6 miles away and more, but that is almost straight up. I am wondering how far away standard RC gear will work with an altitude of around 1000 feet... Anyone tried it ????
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 11:20 PM
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I think there'll be more expertise in the Sailplanes forum about this.


Ram.
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 11:41 PM
Professor of Wood
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Nampa. Idaho
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sesat
I think there'll be more expertise in the Sailplanes forum about this.Ram.
Perhaps,

The sail plane guys fly straight up though. They go for altitude and not range. The closer you are to the ground the less range you get.

One only has to read a few of these threads though in order to learn to not touch these questions with a ten foot pole. Even though the forum is about UAV's just look how many people speak against UAV's. When you read a question like the original post, you can almost hear the shot guns getting locked and loaded. Go watch "One flew over the cookoo's nest" and learn to be like Chief Bromden. You eventually learn to just keep it to yourself in order to get out unscathed.

Dan
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Old Aug 20, 2005, 11:54 PM
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Dan, you said it. I'm almost starting to wonder if I shouldn't have listened more to good ol' LeccyFlyer back when the forum was proposed and being debated. Not that even he probably foresaw this...

Shotgun blasts notwithstanding, I'll say JettPilot that I'd be surprised if you get a 6 mile range at 1,000 feet altitude with standard R/C gear. I haven't done any testing but this is my hunch.

I think if you want to fly long range (rather than strictly high altitude), you're going to have to rely more and more on the autonomous capabilities of your craft. At that point perhaps the traditional R/C control wouldn't be necessary - just so long as you could send it a signal to return to home or other limited commands, which it could interpret and follow with its own intelligence. For those sorts of communication Ham radio could be used or perhaps cell phone technology.


Luke
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Old Aug 21, 2005, 12:34 AM
Professor of Wood
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Nampa. Idaho
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeZ
, I'll say JettPilot that I'd be surprised if you get a 6 mile range at 1,000 feet altitude with standard R/C gear. I haven't done any testing but this is my hunch. Luke
Agreed LukeZ,

You might think of getting 1/3 of that range at 1000 agl provided you have good Line of Site. (The real Line of site. Between your antenna's.) No Forest or mountains in the way etc. RF wave propagation along the ground is disturbed by the ground and variations in it. The more you get above those variations, the greater range you can get. A couple of other non committal points here if I may.

1. The antenna length should not be messed with unless you can also re-tune the matching circuitry in the receiver. The standard antenna length for a 72 Mhz RC system is ~ ¼ wave length. Slight variations are tolerated but the manufacturer tunes the antenna input to the right frequency and matches it to the antenna.

2. The antenna’s will be optimized in a typical UAV at a distance setup if they are both oriented vertically. We generally run the receiver antenna horizontal in the airframe along the fuselage. Then guys tend to and fly straight away or straight towards themselves. That’s the absolute worst cross section to hit a radio wave off of. If you can get the full length of your receive antenna mounted so it points straight up at the sky, it will be more optimum. This is what the glider guys have going for them as well as being clear of terra firma. Their antenna is oriented horizontal. They are overhead not far away. You hold your transmitter antenna horizontal and you got two antenna’s polarized the same way.

3. Add on amplifiers at this frequency violates FCC rules for power levels and should not be used. Additionaly it is doubtful they would meet narrow band specifications. They would most likely transmit out of band side lobes that would nail adjacent channels and maybe beyond. The modulation envelope would certainly bleed beyond the 10 Khz channel width alotted for any given 72 Mhz channel. The 10 RC frequencies at 6 meters for Ham operators are limited to 1 watt output power as per the FCC and ARRL.

Dan
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Old Aug 21, 2005, 07:40 PM
JettPilot's Avatar
Miami
Joined Apr 2005
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Did I say 80 watts I meant .8 watt amplifier
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Old Aug 21, 2005, 08:19 PM
JettPilot's Avatar
Miami
Joined Apr 2005
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Luke Z,
You should not listen to what leccyflyer says about UAV's, or this forum. Here is what he had to say about waht we do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer

which is a good enough reason for amateurs not to be dabbling in operation of UAVs, beyond visual range video controlled flight and sharing the same high altitudes of commercial and general aviation aircraft.
That type of paranoid attitude will get your rights taken away really quick. Leccy wants to take our rights away before government even has a chance. Leccy is an abusive governments dream. The governmnet, the police and the regulators would all be very happy if all we did was work, eat, watch tv, and only enguage in very mundane and no risk activities. This is no way to live... This attitude of "im sorry we are here, and we wont fly anything beyond little foam park flyers" is for weaklings and people that live in fear. When government or an agency sees that you are an easy target, they will regulate you. If they think they would have a fight on thier hands, they are less likely to infringe on our rights. Its that simple.
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Old Aug 21, 2005, 10:02 PM
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JettPilot,

Well, that may be... but in any case I was mostly just being facetious. I certainly don't want LeccyFlyer to think the shotguns are being locked and loaded when he comes to this forum though, regardless of what his views are: so, moving on...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JettPilot
Did I say 80 watts! I meant .8 watt amplifier
Glad to hear it! You had me stumped on that one!

Luke
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Old Aug 22, 2005, 12:21 AM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JettPilot
That type of paranoid attitude will get your rights taken away really quick. Leccy wants to take our rights away before government even has a chance.
There are some of us on this forum that will go out of their way with safety. Those same people also know the limitation of their equipment and know what it will do.

Then there are those people that have no clue. They're will not last long in the hobby. It's happened time and time again at any flying field. I have a pretty big airplane budget. When you're crashing $300-$600 in planes a month it starts to add up and you slow down and think a bit.

I'll do some crazy things as I test out my equipment and get a feel for it. I don't like don't stupid things and embarrassing myself in front of others. So if I'm going to do something stupid, then I'm going to make sure the only thing laughing at me is the wildlife. Trust me there is some wildlife in Northern VA that has laughed at me falling out of a tree as I try to get my plane. I've also flown my 40-Stick within arms reach of me during a dead stick landing. I thought it was cool I could hear the servos as my plane passed by.. Probably not the smartest thing to do, but I was in control and knew what was going on.
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Old Aug 22, 2005, 04:22 AM
All under control, Grommit!
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,588 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JettPilot
Luke Z,
You should not listen to what leccyflyer says about UAV's, or this forum. Here is what he had to say about waht we do.



That type of paranoid attitude will get your rights taken away really quick. Leccy wants to take our rights away before government even has a chance. Leccy is an abusive governments dream. The governmnet, the police and the regulators would all be very happy if all we did was work, eat, watch tv, and only enguage in very mundane and no risk activities. This is no way to live... This attitude of "im sorry we are here, and we wont fly anything beyond little foam park flyers" is for weaklings and people that live in fear. When government or an agency sees that you are an easy target, they will regulate you. If they think they would have a fight on thier hands, they are less likely to infringe on our rights. Its that simple.
The RC modeller has been operating around the world for many years with line of sight and within visual range control of models with very few problems in their dealings with the various authorities concerned with aviation safety. The numerous discussions in these forums regarding the capabilities of operating in that flight regime, with being able to see and avoid full sized aircraft and with remaining in airspace where model aircraft are not a risk to man-carrying aircraft, or people on the ground, have shown that there is a (fortunately small) minority who seem to beleive that they can do whatever the heck they like. They view this as the actions of a free spirit. Such antics include supporting the flight of a .40 sized model over a built up area for the purposes of aerial photography, in supporting flight of model aircraft up to 80,000 feet, in flying large scale models at night, with pyrotechnics and any number of other breaches of good airmanship which are virtually guaranteed to bring those modellers into conflict with the very authorities that they wish to avoid regulation by.

The fac that modellers HAVE been operating in full view of the authorities with very little in the way of restriction is due to those modellers essentially being self-regulating and in not placing their models into situations in conflict with full scale aviation. The technological developments that now allow out-of-visual-range autonomous operation of model aircraft are such that these will be brought into those areas of conflict.

That, to my mind, is not a desireable state of affairs. If I could trust government organisations to make that distinction and to make regulation that would only affect UAVs which are not LOS within visual range, then I would be less concerned. However as has already been demoinstrated the fact that there are those who are negotiating actively with those authorites and including a category of UAV which includes most RC model aircraft being flown today as something requiring of further regulation, gives me great cause for concern.
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Old Apr 14, 2009, 04:42 AM
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http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/index.php most range Ive ever had!!!!!
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Old Apr 14, 2009, 08:01 AM
Multicopter/FPV/UAV/HAM
_helitron_'s Avatar
Austria, Stmk., Neudau
Joined Jun 2006
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When 432 - 445 Mhz (ISM band) is allowed in your country you can take Thomas' Scherrer's/Daniel Wee's UHF system

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=905915

is good for 5 km (without booster) to 15 km (with booster). I use it since end of last year with great success. Additional advantage there is no problem with the 2,4 Ghz video downlink.

Erwin
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Old Apr 14, 2009, 10:30 AM
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Joined Nov 2007
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For our high altitude balloon we have a 10mW 434Mhz off-te-shelf unit, the VCO of which we feed at 50 baud. With a yagi antenna, it's good for 600km from a 30km high balloon. We tested that in action (when we lost one out to sea) and it was curvature of the earth that meant we lost it. If your UAV just takes off on its own and stops being intelligent, it might make a useful locator beacon. to find it from 50 miles away, or whatever.
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