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Old Feb 25, 2001, 06:56 PM
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Don Sims's Avatar
Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
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Kyosho 180 Poor Man's Power Fix???

I really enjoyed Steven Hornaday's article on the 180. I have one that I've been learning on and agree with him about the power issue. My Push-E-Cat with a 480 has excellent flight and control time compaired to the K-180. Since I've become an retired/unemployed/college student our budget can't afford a new engine like he discribed in his article. Is there another-cheaper fix possibly with a gear drive and different prop that would go with the stock 550 engine?? I've used several tubes of epoxy on the plane after numerous crashes but it still flies. Ugly as sin but it keeps on getting into the air but not much power.
Thanks for your imput out there!
Don
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Old Feb 25, 2001, 07:46 PM
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davecee's Avatar
Nashville, NC, USA
Joined Mar 1999
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Don, your motor probably will be less efficient reversed so a belt drive may be the answer. The Olympus 2.3:1 belt drive from Hobby Lobby, with a Master Airscrew 12/8 folding prop on 7 cells should do the job for about $35 total assuming you're using 7 cells now. Some will criticize this choice of prop but they work OK and a fellow has been selling them on E-Bay for $3.95, if I remember correctly. Good luck,Dave C.
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Old Feb 25, 2001, 08:11 PM
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Stillwater, OK, USA
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You might try a MEC Turbo 10 GT on with their 6:1 reduction box. 8-10 cells and a 13x7 folding prop. This is not really cheap, but I'd guess it costs less than the cobalt motor. You can find this setup at www.modelelectronicscorp.com

Matt
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Old Feb 25, 2001, 08:29 PM
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Indy, IN
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Hi Guys! This is my first post.
I got a Kyosho 180 a couple months ago, but have not tried to fly it yet. Steve's article left me even more afraid to crash it. Any opinions about covering the 180 with Econokote (like Monokote, but for foam)? Glad to have read Steve's article and this post - I have not been able to find much info about the K-180. Thanks.
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Old Feb 26, 2001, 02:39 PM
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Don Sims's Avatar
Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
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Thankis for the replies so far! Please keep the ideas coming. I'm suprised that a 550 can't handle a gear box. I don't understand the comment about "reversing". Do all gear boxes need to be reversed??
Thanks again!
Don
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Old Feb 26, 2001, 03:18 PM
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Bristol, England
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Isn't the supplied motor a 540?

I have yet to try it in a slower model, but if the $22 Magnetic Mayhem didn't sort it out with the supplied 7x4 prop, (or is it 7x5?) on 7 cells I would be very surprised - you haven't seen my Electrostreak climb on just this power setup.

As an alternative, I'm having success (on the bench) with 540 size motors in the 2.3:1 Olympus on 7 cells with 10 x 7 power props. (MFA, the manufacturers, recommend an 11 x 6)

Regards, John
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Old Feb 26, 2001, 03:23 PM
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Most inexpensive gearboxes require that the motor direction of rotation be reversed. If a motor is neutrally timed you can just switch the power leads. A motor that is not neutrally timed will run faster, cooler, and more efficiently in one direction than the other unless you readjust the timing when you reverse the rotation. I'm sure your motor does not have adjustible timing. I don't think it is neutrally timed. A belt drive does not require reversal of the previously direct drive motor, so probably the best bet for you if you want to use your present motor. You had mentioned keeping cost to a minimum so I was trying to suggest a solution using your motor. However, you can get a motor, gearbox, and prop combination from Tower Hobbies for about $38. the Great planes T 600GD system or a Master Airscrew system. At a 2.5:1 ratio and 7 cells either one will fly your plane with more authority than your present direct drive . Dave C.

[This message has been edited by davecee (edited 02-26-2001).]
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Old Feb 26, 2001, 07:05 PM
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Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
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Thanks for the explanations Dave C.! The fog is starting to clear.
Don
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Old Feb 26, 2001, 07:28 PM
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My pleasure,Don.
Dave C
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Old Feb 28, 2001, 11:20 AM
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Indy, IN
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I am a little confused. What if we take the set up that comes with it and just run it off 7 cells? Will this give it enough power?
What if we just add a larger prop to the current set up?
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Old Feb 28, 2001, 10:05 PM
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Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
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Newton,
FYI I'm running 7 Sub "C's" 2000mai in it already and tried a larger folding prop and that worked worse than the stock prop. As soon as I save up a bit of cash, I plan to try the belt drive or Magnetic Mahem moter. Whicever is cheaper. I was flying it again yesterday and needed some more power because of wind gusts, crashed again.... It's getting epoxied again.
Later,
Don
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Old Mar 01, 2001, 02:20 PM
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Bristol, England
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Hi again,

Unfortunately I have only seen the Kyosho Cessna, not seen it fly. I have been involved in getting a large number of 3lb 2m gliders to fly properly over the past couple of years. With each case we went through a process of improvement, and what was necessary depended on the provided motor. The first mod was to go to a good 7 cell pack, and if that didn't work, then the normal route was to go from an 8x4 to a 9x5 folder, this normally sorted most of them out. I was never comfortable with loading the 550s down like this, and some motors won't take it, particularly the slightly shorter 540s. My preferred route was to go to a slightly hotter motor with the 7 cells - though we went to a hotter motor on 6 cells with one.

I suggested the Magnetic Mayhem because I have tested it against one of the hotter 550s (600s) and on a 7x6 prop (similar load to an 8x4), the MM beat the 550 on both revs and lower current drain. I then flew the MM in my fairly fast 38oz Electrostreak, and got a dramatic improvement in climb by changing down to a 7x4. I was concerned about using the smaller prop at 13 500 revs in a slower model, but I have since found that the speed of the Electrostreak was limited by the pitch speed of the prop, not the drag of the airframe (tested by taking the prop to 15 000 revs on 8 cells). I am now happy that the pitch speed of the MM with 7 cells on a 7x4 in a slower model would not be excessive, but I will be testing this with a Hobby Hangar Scout in the next couple of weeks - I said that a couple of weeks ago! I am getting flights of over 10 minutes with this setup on 7 RC2000s in the ElectroStreak.

The MM is exactly the same size as a 550 (600), same length, same diameter, and same shaft size with a flat machined on the shaft, so if the Cessna does use a 550 (as advertised) then the MM will go straight in. The Kyosho prop supplied is excellent, and appears to be the correct size.

If it is then felt that a gearbox would be desirable, the forward timed Magnetic Mayhem will go straight in an Olympus belt drive with a prop of 10 x 7 or so, which is not excessive for use with the Cessna undercarriage. There is a reverse timed MM for use with gearboxes.

Whilst I haven't tried this in a Kyosho Cessna, I am happy that it is a very good bet at $22. Another possibility is the 600 size Velkom 24/12 on an 8x4 or 9x4ish at $50. The Astro 035G on 6 or 7 cells appears perfect but...$130!

BTW, I tried a 540 that behaves just like the MM in one 2m glider that previously had a 550 on 7 cells; the climb rate doubled, allowing twice the number of climbs to the same height on a battery charge.

It would be great to read how you get on Don.

Regards, John
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Old Mar 02, 2001, 08:13 PM
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Indy, IN
Joined Feb 2001
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Thanks for the input. Looks like I need a new motor. A friend gave me a motor from his Kyosho car that runs on 6-sub-c packs. He says it was a "racing motor". Would this be an option for me? Not too many markings on it, but it looks way more sophisticated than anything I seen in my limited experience (I have only seen can motors). It has a label with "Speedworks" and someone's autograph (H....W....?). Any input appreciated. Anybody tried the Econokote on foamies?
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Old Mar 03, 2001, 12:12 AM
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Hi Newton,

Yes it is a lot of use, but it might take a little experimentation. If the end bell is simply crimped over, and it says "ROAR Legal" it is a 27 turn "stock racing motor" that would probably take the stock prop on direct drive.

Does it not say how many turns on the label?Your motor is probably a "Modified" with adjustable timing, in which case you will HAVE to use a gearbox. If you have 6 cell packs to start with I would use them for initial tests with this motor. If you can tell me the number of turns, I can give you some idea of the starting point for gear ratio and prop size. For a 19 turn car motor at around 2.5:1, I would suggest starting with something like 9x7 or 10x6.

This is some useful reading to start with: http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/Forum1/HTML/005358.html

I would also do a search (top right of the screen) on "car" and "buggy" in Open Discussion and Modeling Science

Regards, John
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Old Mar 03, 2001, 10:21 AM
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Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
Joined May 2000
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Yesteday I tried the plane again and tip stalled from 20'. No damage to the plane. (All that epoxy on the front held.) But major engine damage, severly bent shaft. So I guess I'll try the Mag. Maham moter. I saw on another post that Tower Hobbies has them in stock. Maybe the wife will let me get a gear drive too. I'll let you know how it goes. Again: I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE EXCELLENT COMMENTS AND IDEAS FROM ALL YOU E-ZONERS!!!
Don
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