HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 10, 2005, 09:43 AM
Dinasour Electric
Portland Intl, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2004
101 Posts
Micro electronics

There are some very small micro controllers in use for our hobby, pics and Zilog come to mind. Also camera on a chip is a reality with current off the self silicon. Other sensors are also micro sized for just such data gathering, gas dection, temp, air pressure... many could be on a SMT board with RAM on the processor. Once the ship returns to home base upload of data via IR would be straight forward. I would trade power plant for electonics in weight. So a glider with snooping gear, pulled aloft by another aircraft or rocket. Glide path stable with no telemetry just gathering data. 15 return glide is very possible.
jamgrah is offline Find More Posts by jamgrah
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 10, 2005, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the Fish!
aerogel's Avatar
Land of cajuns
Joined Dec 2001
1,066 Posts
Jamgrah GTD 21 Drone for the Sr-71 did exactly this when Kennedy's pledge to cease manned recon missions over the USSR after the loss of the U-2 piloted by Gary Powers

I would like to work on a design close to this..
aerogel is offline Find More Posts by aerogel
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 01:28 PM
Registered User
beanoman's Avatar
Akron/Canton, Ohio, United States
Joined Aug 2004
879 Posts
well, i needed a new airframe for a bit setup, so i decided to go ahead and make a ""mav"". i was just cutting what looked right, so it has a 4 and 1/4 inch wingspan, about 5 inches long. weighs 12 grams, so it is quick, but not fast. it also has a very nice thrust to weight ratio, although this makes it all the harder to do with bit stuff. i think maybe 10 grams of thrust, and that was on a battery that was at about 3.9 volts or so- it may be able to launch vertical when peaked, but it wont be controllable.

also, these planes are extremely twitchy- the slightest change makes it fly completely differently. the foam construction and small size make the airframe unbreakable.

well, having fun with my ""mav""... or micro model, or whatever you would like to call it . test flight sometime later today.

beano
edit- note that this is the bottom side of the mav, in flught the tail is on the bottom.
beanoman is offline Find More Posts by beanoman
Last edited by beanoman; Aug 10, 2005 at 01:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 01:31 PM
Micro Flyer, Big Poster
Pete P's Avatar
Joined Feb 2005
1,390 Posts
I always thought an Autogyro would make an excellent MAV...
High payload capacity.
STO/VL.
POSSIBILITY of Hover in headwind.
Pete P is offline Find More Posts by Pete P
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 02:19 PM
Registered User
FLY...Please's Avatar
Dayton, Ohio
Joined Jun 2005
177 Posts
Great looking micro model/MAV. Plese keep us updated.
FLY...Please is offline Find More Posts by FLY...Please
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 02:29 PM
The ceiling is the limit!
micromad's Avatar
South of England
Joined Aug 2004
1,237 Posts
I think it would be great fun if we were to make them environmentally friendly as possible. This could include using little power and try and make them really quiet.
I am thinking that I could build one with a thermometer attached so that it could measure the temperature of the air at a certain altitude.
I agree with what Epilot had to say and i think that it should be taken into account.

Alex
micromad is offline Find More Posts by micromad
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 04:05 PM
Realtired User
mharms's Avatar
San Jose, California
Joined Oct 2004
870 Posts
Beano,

Good luck with your MAV (why get picky about names). Is your wing cambered and reflexed or just flat? I found that many of my tailless gliders flew well with just a little bend downward at the LE and then very gentle reverse (I guess you would call it that) camber back to the TE (giving it some reflex). Also, the foam meat trays I used for some of the gliders had a bumpy pattern on the underside, which "seemed" to improve glide, but I have not done a controlled experiment to confirm this effect.

Many of the tailless MAVs have vertical stabs on the bottom. I wonder if the reason for this is aerodynamic or practical (protection of the "guts")? Then there's the question of using rudder or elevons on these type of flyers -- Wonder what the pros/cons are?

I share Epilot's concern about harmful applications of MAVs. I like Alex's idea about datalogging air temperature or sensing other environmental characteristics as Jamgrah mentioned. Data could be downlinked or downloaded post-flight. While video from an MAV is likely to be of lower quality, an MAV might still be able to take high quality still photos (probably need a quick shutter to avoid blur due to vibration or speed). How about building several MAVs and then emulating "flocking" behavior? I think there are a lot of cool challenges possible.

Mark
mharms is offline Find More Posts by mharms
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 04:17 PM
Stuck on a rock
epilot's Avatar
Faroe Islands, Sandoy, Sandur
Joined Nov 2000
5,762 Posts
Beano, how are you going to get the thing to turn on rudder only? I can't see any dihedral. I think you need elevons to control a disc like that.

Michael
epilot is offline Find More Posts by epilot
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 04:19 PM
Registered User
dapple63's Avatar
Joined Jun 2005
1,031 Posts
Beano,

Have fun with the MAV. Did you make it BEFORE or AFTER your chicken and BBQ beans dinner?

I need to take a pic of my STEALTH MAV that I made with a KFC plate and some leftover WATTAGE MicroFlyer stuff. Small wingspan, flies great, but I have yet to put it to any practical use. You get a platform that can only take a few grams of whatever payload you want to put.
dapple63 is offline Find More Posts by dapple63
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 04:35 PM
Registered User
beanoman's Avatar
Akron/Canton, Ohio, United States
Joined Aug 2004
879 Posts
hey hey, lets not talk mean about the foam plates- airframe cost me .025 cents . it has underchamber and dehidral, although you cant see it in the previous pic. i was thinking about adding a a stab under it, but i think its twitchy enough.
as of now, there was just a rain storm right after the 80 or 90 degree heat today- go figure. also, my actuator isnt responding. that shouldnt be very hard to fix though.

beano
beanoman is offline Find More Posts by beanoman
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 04:51 PM
Registered User
dapple63's Avatar
Joined Jun 2005
1,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerogel
How about one of them Estes rocket cam's or just some kind of on on board cam...not wireless...not expensive could save lots of weight and battery power..
I've got one of those Estes 110 cams. Not very useful. I am going to talk to a guy over at JP Aerospace http://www.jpaerospace.com/. Maybe they've seen some innovations. They have kids launching "PongSats" into near space (90K feet +) by balloons.

There might be a simple, lightweight "real science" application that is staring us in the face.
dapple63 is offline Find More Posts by dapple63
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 04:59 PM
Stuck on a rock
epilot's Avatar
Faroe Islands, Sandoy, Sandur
Joined Nov 2000
5,762 Posts
They say pigs fly. Leave a slice of ham on the plate for a bit of extra lift

Good luck

Michael
epilot is offline Find More Posts by epilot
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2005, 05:11 PM
Registered User
dapple63's Avatar
Joined Jun 2005
1,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by epilot
They say pigs fly. Leave a slice of ham on the plate for a bit of extra lift

Good luck

Michael
You GENIUS you!!! That's it!!!! Pizza delivery MAV's!!!!
dapple63 is offline Find More Posts by dapple63
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 2005, 12:18 AM
Registered User
TreeFlyer's Avatar
Joined Oct 2004
499 Posts
I tried my version of an MAV and would be interested in learning more. The problem that mine had were related to stability, "Dutch Roll", etc.... Something that could fly in windy conditions and still be responsive. Count me in!
TreeFlyer is offline Find More Posts by TreeFlyer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 2005, 03:01 AM
Knight of Ni-wom
Victorville, CA
Joined Mar 2003
179 Posts
Well, here it is in all of its (ugly) glory!


First real flights were today, and went well after we figured out how to launch it correctly. We were flying in a strong headwind, and the winglets were doing too good of a job at providing yaw stability. The darn thing weathervaned so well I didn't risk too much of a turn, so we called it good at one long mostly straight flight. Tip stalls are a bit nasty, and it could definately stand to loose some weight. As it sits now it weighs 147 grams, or 17 grams above design weight.

We worked hard on making it near indestructable, and our efforts paid off. Its been rolled in off of launch about 5 times now in tall grass, had one impact with nice short (hard) grass, and its even been stepped on during retrieval Most of the ruggedness comes from the break-away wing design. Both top and bottom wings attach by magnet with a very nice positive lock, but give way in a crash. The only repairs so far have been re-attaching the prop, and reparing the balsa C channel that holds the magnets. Oversight on our part has made the C channel the weakest part, as the balsa just splits with the grain in the nastier encounters with Mother Earth.

I'll get some better pics of the wing attachment and the "avionics board". We plan to learn as much as we can from this airframe, and then continue on with a Mk II version.

Loren
lorenkb is offline Find More Posts by lorenkb
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MAV (Micro Air Vehicle) Resources and Links Gordon Johnson Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 21 Aug 29, 2005 07:24 PM
Question Micro Air Vehicle Project Viper2000 Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 101 Apr 19, 2004 02:26 AM
Micro Air Vehicle Science Project KatanaGuy Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 11 Sep 07, 2003 08:31 PM
Build a WASP Micro Air Vehicle!? Nowell York Electric Plane Talk 16 Mar 04, 2003 09:01 PM
DARPA's Micro Air Vehicle has batteries for wings.... Steve McBride Batteries and Chargers 0 Dec 31, 2002 01:17 PM