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Old Aug 09, 2005, 03:07 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
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MAV (Micro Air Vehicle) Discussion

John (Fly...Please) has recently increased the interest in MAV's on the forum. He and I have talked about maybe starting some threads for MAV's. I'll start them and let John and others contribute the content. And, I'll clean up certain threads, like the two listed below, which are intended to be resource threads.

I'll also be starting two other threas.
"Working MAV's (Micro Air Vehicles)"
"MAV (Micro Air Vehicle) Resources and Links"

This thread is intended to be a general thread where people can discuss motors, props, planforms, etc. In other words, it's to discuss anything and everything about MAV's. If the thread gets excessively long I will close it and create a #2 thread, and so on.

Gordon
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 03:28 PM
semper ventosus
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Sasebo, Japan
Joined Jun 2004
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Do MAV's have to perform another function besides flying?
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 04:14 PM
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aerogel's Avatar
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I get confused on these definitions I call a
MAV's- Micro Air Vehicles.... R/C or telerobotic's some kind of up link
UAV's Unmanned aerial vehicles.. -On board Computers no up link

this is one of the MAV's I have been working on for some time now it is r/c controlled with a video down link....thanks to Dynamics Unlimited its
Becoming a reality
Just the Graphic for now : )
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 04:15 PM
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good question and where can i get more information about the competition (and do you need high tech composite materials to be competitive?)
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 04:26 PM
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Dude, I don't think this is a competetion. My question was regarding what these threads were going to discuss. Is the purpose to build micro/indoor models that "look" like "real" MAVs? Or, are we talking about actual MAV's which, from what I know, serve other specific purposes like videography, remote sensing...
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 04:37 PM
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weather man... I think Actual MAVs and UAVs....they have to do something else then just fly
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 04:44 PM
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Sasebo, Japan
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I know that, that's why I'm asking if that's what the intent of this thread is. Maybe, Gordon Johnson will clear it up for us.
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerogel
I get confused on these definitions I call a
MAV's- Micro Air Vehicles.... R/C or telerobotic's some kind of up link
UAV's Unmanned aerial vehicles.. -On board Computers no up link

this is one of the MAV's I have been working on for some time now it is r/c controlled with a video down link....thanks to Dynamics Unlimited its
Becoming a reality
Just the Graphic for now : )
Didn't I see that in the Terminator movie?

Is it self-aware yet?
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 05:01 PM
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dapple63 not yet waiting for skynet to be built ; )
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 05:46 PM
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Belgium
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Here's a site about the European MAV competition:
http://www.supaero.fr/microdrone/

Low to high air speed and a wireless camera with a wingspan of 15 cm max seem to be the definition. And they do are manually controlled.

I believe a build-up MicroMite would classify as a MAV ;-)

Johan
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 05:49 PM
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Oxford/England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Johnson

This thread is intended to be a general thread where people can discuss motors, props, plan-forms, etc. In other words, it's to discuss anything and everything about MAV's.

Gordon
I think Gordon made the purpose of the thread abundantly clear.

MAV means micro air vehicle and much of the research had been directed towards various competitions or at least specifications such as those put forward by DARPA (I think it was them). But at the end of the day anything that is micro and flies could be considered a MAV.

However I would say that MAVs are really micro models with a purpose or a mission, the purpose may vary but generally it will be surveillance based.

Graham
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 05:53 PM
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Abundantly clear.
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 06:20 PM
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I think a hobbyist's definition of what an MAV is should be different than what DARPA defines (for no other reason than we don't have such deep pockets). The new UAV forum has much discussion of very cool GPS systems, downlink electronics, autopilots, etc., most of which won't fit in a "micro" airframe and, while the costs are coming down, its not at all inexpensive gear. I guess I'd like to see emphasis on the basic, more down-to-earth (no pun intended) issues here so people aren't forced to get a research grant to participate.

When I think "MAV", I tend to think of small, low AR planform, tailless designs, but that is just one common form. There are hovering designs, flapping wing designs and more conventional looking designs... whatever one can imagine. Mainly, MAVs fly outside, so dealing with wind is a big issue. They tend to fly fairly fast and tend to be a handfull to handle without active stabilization systems. MAV's usually have some kind of data downlink, and that side of things should be discussed. Still, a lot can be done without fancy gear (I hope). Heck, I have fun experimenting with dumb little MAV-style gliders in the park.

Some of the topics I would be interested in (some of which Gordon already identified):

Planforms for MAVs.

Stability and handling of small, low AR, tailless designs.

Wind. How to deal with it.

Power systems for MAVs.

Assisted flight through Use of gyros, horizon detectors, sensors, etc

Data downlinks/telemetry/video/electronics

Hobbyist-level electronics/systems for improving flight characteristics.

Bird/insect aerodynamics as might apply to MAVs.

These are just my thoughts. Hope to contribute some power system info soon.

Mark
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 06:32 PM
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Well I think what ever it is...It has to have some kind of function, Tactical use or do something....a wing with a plantraco set up is a micro model....Now if it had a cam, etc,etc...It would be a MAV
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Old Aug 09, 2005, 06:50 PM
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i think i want to do a little somewhat-mav stuff... why not start out as simple as possible, then work up? i would not at all mind building a little 5 or so inch round flying wing bit plane- it would be a fun project, and would show how simple a 'mav' can be. it wont be easy to control, it wont have 'fancy' autopilot, sensors or cameras- a poor mans mav.

for me, what i would want the most on a mav- stable, a long duration, and maybe even a wireless video camera at some point- those are my goals. so, i will start out with it being stable, and possibly with a long duration. then, when they make a cheap-ish wireless video camera that is small enough...

what i have laying around is: foam, a orange superslick dd, a didel 4.5 ohm motor geared 3:1 with a ok prop on it, not yet gutted bit car, kokam 140 mah cell, and either a bit actuator or small motor for rudder control.

while it may not be consdered a true mav by most, hopefully it will help other people to choose the right power system for a slightly slower than the norm mav. also, it will be the true poor mans mav if it works.


beano, with another project that probly wont work

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