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Old Aug 04, 2005, 09:29 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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massive wire versus multistranded wire

David Theunissen did some calculations:
http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/winding.htm

Colin Dedman's analysis:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lrk-to...x/message/8764

Peter Rother:
http://www.torcman.de/peterslrk/Skin-Effekt.html

Vriendelijke groeten Ron van Sommeren
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Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Aug 04, 2005 at 09:35 AM.
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 11:24 AM
jrb
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Edina, MN, USA
Joined Oct 1999
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Its been used in higher performance RC Car motors for quite a while:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...nd&FVPROFIL=++
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 11:29 AM
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WOW, someone has way way too much time on their hands. Very well done though.
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 12:36 PM
Pro Bro #495
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Farmington NM
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very cool stuff!!
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latrans
WOW, someone has way way too much time on their hands.
My part started as I prepare to wind the world's best electric motor (the CROCODILE project, of course) and kept getting more complex. Still a little more work needed I fear to consider the options. I welcome suggestions.
David.
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 02:22 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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Crocodile project, including turned parts, shafts, magnets, stator:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392627
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 02:24 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
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Holger Lambertus' results, using massive wire and litze wire, nice pictures too
http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/thre...610#post826610
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 05:00 PM
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I think we have to be a member to see the photos. Holger's results also show that 'thick is beautiful'!

I must be very sad because I spent another evening on this! I have added a section looking at how the wire 'bows' away from the side of the stator. This appears to be one of the major constraints to density. I really want thinner wire to be better than thick but just can't do it yet!!!
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 05:28 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
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Old Aug 04, 2005, 11:51 PM
Pro Bro #495
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Farmington NM
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What about winding with a single strand of thin wire and connecting the teeth in paralell. I saw pics of a Shogun motor wound this way. Unless my line of thinking is off, it would be the same resistance as a triple strand. It would be easier to wind a single strand neatly, but it would be a lot of turns.
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Old Aug 05, 2005, 04:54 PM
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I'd like to see that Shogun design. Ron, I managed to register and have now seen the rcline photos; nice and neat but some empty space!

When I draw a GB 22.7 stator in CAD I can fit 70 strands of 0.45mm between two teeth. The most dense motor I have ever made has been 48 strands of 0.45mm (24 turns x2 = 3.82mm2) which I thought was quite good. By improving my technique I can get up to 50 strands but this is still way short of 70. So a little test revealed that I could fit 64 separate strands if I did not do any winding (=5.09mm2). The wire is slightly curved so I know I won't ever get to 70.

I am still looking for a techniques that will achieve greater winding density. The big issue for me has become the fact that the windings are 'oval' and waste space. So I have tried flattening the wire against the inside of the tooth with a wooden skewer/plastic wedge after each layer. This has helped a great deal and I have been able to fit 28T of 0.45mm (=56 strands) into two successive teeth so a complete motor should be feasible. This is 4.46mm2, over 16% better than what I could achieve before starting this research.

The second photo below shows 28x0.45mm on the left and 40x0.375mm (4.42mm2) on the right. The latter should make a nice 20T motor if I wind it with two successive strands although rotor clearance may be a problem. I will post more details of the technique in the first link in this thread.
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Old Aug 05, 2005, 06:54 PM
Lance Armstrong- 7 times!
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Absolutely amazing work.
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Old Aug 05, 2005, 06:58 PM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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One way to achive better density that may work is to wind always in one direction, and then come back up to the beginning with a diagonal wire outside the inter-stator gaps (where space is less an issue). Then the next layer can lie in the gaps in the first layer, and follow it down...
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Old Aug 05, 2005, 09:59 PM
Lance Armstrong- 7 times!
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Madison, Wisconsin
Joined Sep 2001
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In the first link you'll see a good picture of what Vintage is saying.
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