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Old Apr 28, 2002, 05:34 PM
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Oslo, Norway
Joined Aug 2001
68 Posts
Logo 10 Cyclic response

Hi All

Just wondering what cyclic response you guys get from your Logo 10.
Mine seems real sluggish, Loops are OK, but rolls seems to take forever.
This is my set up:
- Mikado ”acro” glass blades.
- Metal swash (yes, I do get maximum throw)
- Lighter paddles. I think they are K&S pink. A bit pitchy in FF flight.
- Hitec 85 on CCPM
- GY401 w/ 9250
- Kontronik 600-15
- 14t pinion
- ESC setting 85%
- 12 RC2400.

I know my HS might be a bit on the low side. I tried 14x2400 with the same gearing and a 90% ESC setting. Didn’t make much difference even if the HS was higher. Do I need to up the HS to a level where I need the thrust bearing upgrade to get descent cyclic??

Anyone out there with the same experience??. Is this the way it is, or am I doing something wrong.
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Old Apr 28, 2002, 06:16 PM
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Lake Louise, AB, Canada
Joined Feb 2000
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Hi Anders,

I think that your head speed is too low - with 12 cells and your 14T pinion, I calculate 1323, which is pretty low
.
A 16T pinion, would give a maximum rpm of 1512. A 17T pinion gives 1600 max.

With 13 cells and a 16T pinion, I calculate 1638 max rpm, which would also just meet the guideline of 1600 rpm or less for no thrust bearings.

Your 14 cell setup computes to 1544 rpm and then, of course, you are throttling back from that....

It might be worth trying to get your flight headspeed, not the maximum, up to around 1600 rpm. However for high performance I think that you want to get the thrust bearing upgrade.

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 02:01 AM
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600-15, 14t pinion, 12x2400's and Kont Beat ESC at 85% I get a tached HS of 1450 at sea level.

Depending on the ESC you have, it may be higher as the Kont have a mild advance setting. The Schulze's have a better advance and should give better HS.
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 02:15 AM
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Lake Louise, AB, Canada
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Hey Fred,

Is that under load, i.e hovering? I've been using 1.05 volts/cell for calcs, because makes things fit my readings

Glass blades? Or would that matter?

Cheers!

Glen
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 02:29 AM
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Joined Apr 2001
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I've got the K&S pink paddles too, and they're definitely faster than the stock paddles. I'd like a bit more roll rate too. The cyclic rate is definitely slower than my Raptor.

I'm running a FUN600-18, 12x2400, and 15T with Mikado FG blades.

It's fast enough that if I give it a punch on the collective, I can just barely flip it over in place. Most of the time I loose about 10 feet in altitude.

Which hole in the paddles are you using? I'm using the one closer to the leading edge (less responsive). I'm planning on trying the next hole, but I'm afraid it will get pitchy.


--jim
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 02:41 AM
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That was at hover (IE under load) tested on my heli stand with glass blades.

When I pushed the pitch up, watts and amps went up, but voltage and HS stayed pretty flat. You could hear the motor load up alittle.

It only pulled 24 amps at full pitch so the batteries were not being pushed at all.
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 03:35 AM
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Oslo, Norway
Joined Aug 2001
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Jaggis
I use the same holes. I tried the other on my Concept VR but the pitching got even worse.

Fred
I have a Smile ESC (is it 40-6-18??).
How do You get 1450 from a 600-15 on 12 cells and a 14t pinion?
(1500*12*1.05*14)/200=1323rpm and that is before You involve the ESC.
Am I missing something???.

Have anybody tried a longer flybar??
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 07:39 AM
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cyclic response is a bit slow, but OK on mine. Im using the stock flybar currently, the K&S paddles in the front hole (the rear hole doesn't speed up the cyclic, it just makes the machine "twitchy"), and my setup is spinning the glass mikado blades at 1800. I do have the thrust bearings installed, and the stiffer head dampening option, metal swash,and auto unit.
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Old May 01, 2002, 07:03 AM
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Oslo, Norway
Joined Aug 2001
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Hi
I just discovered someting. I metal swash upgrade has a lot less throw than the stock plastic one. Anybody else noticed this.

I tried mounting the pink K&S paddels further out on the flybar (didn't bottom the flybar in the mounting hole), this effectively gives a larger flybar span, and I think the resposce was quicker (it was wery gusty).

Have anybody tried a longer flybar????
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Old May 01, 2002, 07:51 AM
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In some emails exchanged with Ralf, he mentioned he's using a longer flybar on his 10's now,.. I think the logo 20 flybar. It's a 3mm flybar, like most all the 30 size machines, so there's a large assortment of flybars in varying lengths allready available
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Old May 01, 2002, 07:55 AM
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USA, FL, Apopka
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Anders, what causes the lesser throw with the metal swash?

- is it because the outer ring balls are further out from the mast?

or

- are the inner ring links shorter?

or

- a mechanical limitation on how far the swash can tilt?

or ?


I have been thinking of trying a VARIO aluminum swash. The mast size is right and the price is $71.42

Brad
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Old May 01, 2002, 09:01 AM
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Oslo, Norway
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Bjpaul

It's a little bit of everything really.

There is a mechanical limitation. The inner race on the alu swash has a dia of 15mm (the plastic unit is 24.5). In addition the "ball" that pivots on the mast is recessed when looking at the swash from the underside (6mm on the alu unit, 3mm on the stock unit). This, plus the fact that the alu unit is 3 mm higher than the plastic unit, means that the alu unit makes contact with the mast alot sooner than the stock unit.

The outer ring balls are closer to the mast. In my understanding this serves to reduce the necessary servo input for a given swash deflection. This is not really a problem, because I reach the swash's mechanical limits with 18mm rervo arms and an ATV setting of 135 (Futaba 9C, Hitec 85).

The inner ring balls are a little shorter (44 vs 45). This further reduces the inputs to the head.

I have not been able to meassure the paddle deflection with the two swash plates (hard to eyeball) sorry.

How long is the Logo 20 flybar??.

How about a longer arm on the wash out unit??
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Old May 01, 2002, 07:41 PM
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Anders, I thought it was high to, but I have verified it several times.

Yes the 40-6-18 should be the Smile, but I have the Beat 40-6-18.
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Old May 01, 2002, 07:58 PM
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Mission Viejo, CA, USA
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Hi!

The Logo 20 flybar is 370mm. I have two spares of the Logo 20 flybar so I think I will try one on my Logo 10 and see how it goes.

Don't know if I will get a chance to try it this week and I am away next week. I'll report back on my findings once I try it.

As far as the alum swash goes, I found that I had to rework the linkages to get the same pitch range that I got with the plastic swash but the cyclic feels the same between the two.

Nick
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