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Old Jul 17, 2005, 02:12 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
You just don't get it do you?
I wasn't trying to make a point. I was merely making an observation that he was going to get called out for being simple. That seems to happen a lot here.
I'm not as smart or as educated as you so I am a simpleton i guess.
That also renders my opinion useless and irrelevant also I guess. Unlike some people here, I can comment without tryng to score political points.

How do you know you aren't as smart or well educated as I am?
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 06:32 PM
Hodgehound # 3
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Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrsudog
How do you know you aren't as smart or well educated as I am?
I didn't mean it to be taken literally.....To be honest I really don't have a good explanation of what I meant...Must have been a brain fart.
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 07:28 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
I didn't mean it to be taken literally.....To be honest I really don't have a good explanation of what I meant...Must have been a brain fart.

Well goodness man, express yourself better. If you can't tell me what's going on in your brain, how am I supposed to ignore or belittle it?
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 07:30 PM
Hodgehound # 3
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Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrsudog
Well goodness man, express yourself better. If you can't tell me what's going on in your brain, how am I supposed to ignore or belittle it?
most of the time, I don't even know what goes on in my brain
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 07:39 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstone
most of the time, I don't even know what goes on in my brain
At least you have one. I have to share mine.
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 07:50 PM
Hodgehound # 3
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Adrian, GA
Joined Mar 2005
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I think I was trying to convey some frustration at my inferior debating skills. I get most of my news from radio & tv when I listen to them.. Its really strange, I love to read fiction, but when I try to read a newspaper or webpage, I get extremely bored very quickly. That is part of the reason why I like to read here...its some fiction mixed with fact......not to mention it is entertaining to say the least.
I just don't have a head for facts and figures, so it looks like I am trying to debate based solely on opinion...which I wind up doing more often than not.
I may also feel somewhat inferior to the other master debaters here......it doesn't matter their political affiliation.....I just feel like I need to do a better job and can't..
I know people that can rattle off facts and figures off the top of their heads....not me....I have to carry a notebook with me just to remember simple formulas that I use quite often in my line of work...oh well.....
still doesn't tell me what is going on in my brain....
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 11:40 PM
sensitive artsy type
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Tucker, Georgia, United States
Joined Feb 2004
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Dang, You are doing fine JStone, the "I am just a poor caveman" defense has Irsudog all warm and cozy. (you have succeeded in bringing out his inner puppy) A little more practice and you will be superior to many here. Your writing is excellent, especially that last post.

When I rattle off figures from the top of my head, they are usually wrong. One has to work at being accurate, and dog keeps us from falling into lazy habits like that.

Electrick got me to check my spelling (well most of the time) and now BA has challenged my apostrophe skills, what could be next? tt
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Old Jul 17, 2005, 11:45 PM
Go get them Meg!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treetop
When I rattle off figures from the top of my head, they are usually wrong. One has to work at being accurate, and dog keeps us from falling into lazy habits like that. tt
I have fallen into the lazy habit of mis-spelling myself.

TT is right. The writing is the thing.
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Smith
Your link is worthless in proving your point, at least on Planet Earth. In fact it goes into great length on what a miserable, stinking mess the tax cuts have made of the budget.

While I'm tempted to say your post proves the Ldog Thesis that the right wing loves to parrot simplistic, unrealistic solutions, I won't. What I have found instead is that wild, broad generalizations like "liberals bad" or "conservatives simplistic" are useless and brand the speaker as having his head firmly embedded in an unusal place.

The Ldog knows this is and is just toying with you. You swallowed his bait with gusto.
Ok Greg,
Here you, I had to go digging but we have covered this subject many times before:


Many folks would like to promote that this government should sit on a surplus - wrong, we would sit and watch our money devalue and degrade the buying power of the money we put into the government.

In fact if we used only money we had on hand we would be losing in opportunity costs and intrinsic value every hour of every day and when you spread that over trillions of dollars the loss is staggering.

The fact of the matter that "debt" money is cheaper for an entity to use than its own money. This remains true up to the point right up to the point that it eclipses gross profit. This is especially true for a government which does not need to worry about their "credit score". So as long as the rate of deficit does not eclipse GNP we are in the range we want to be in, if and only when the rate of deficit can eclipse GNP is there anything to worry about and that will never happen.

It has to do with the time value of money.

http://www.studyfinance.com/lessons/timevalue/

from: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=36

In addition see: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/52.html
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 10:40 AM
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Janesville, WI
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrsudog
Again, it is not "Simple" math. If you knew what you were talking about, you would not make such a lame assertion.

Nobody cares about the dollar amount of the tax cut. It is not a valid metric. Instead, what counts is the percentage of income. The top income earners pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than you or I do.

It's just that "simple"...
That simple?

Here are the US tax brackets:

Income level Tax rate
up to $7,150 10%
$7,151 - $29,050 15%
$29,051 - $70,350 25%
$70,351 - $146,750 28%
$146,751- $319,100 33%
over $319,100 35%

Explain how my 28% tax bracket is higher than the top earner's over $319,100 35% is, as a percentage of income...

Your assertion does not compute, unless I seriously misunderstand how percentages work.
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 11:29 AM
Useful Idiot
Asturias, Spain
Joined Mar 2001
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You'd be surprised how little of a top earner's income is taxable after all his allowances have been deducted. For example, he may "earn" 320k, but loan interest motgage, trust funds, life insurance, pension plans etc usually are deducted before tax. Of course he could always incorporate himself as a company and deduct living expenses, transport etc as well. The dodges may vary a little from country to country but the only people who pay those percentages on all income are probably at the lower end of the scale.
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 11:32 AM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
1,892 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
...unless I seriously misunderstand how percentages work.
Your percentages are correct. What they do not consider is that higher income individuals typically have many tax avoidance strategies available to them (capital gains, interest, itemized deductions, stock options etc.) not available to those in lower brackets. The net effect is to lower the effective rate of the higher brackets.

Lightnin, the arguments in your post don't make sense in terms of justifying record deficits/tax cuts for the rich, and the links don't seem to prove anything either. Don't rely on links to do your arguing for you.

IMO record deficits are not good, and I'm in good company in thinking that.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in567809.shtml

"We" have covered this subject many times before as well, "we" being Greenspan et al.
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 11:33 AM
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Janesville, WI
Joined Jul 2004
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So what? I have all those things, too. All of those things are available to any American, why is it the top earner's fault if a lower income person doesn't take advantage of them?
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 11:42 AM
Useful Idiot
Asturias, Spain
Joined Mar 2001
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Sometimes, after the rent, groceries, clothing, medical insurance etc have been paid, there's not enough left over to pay the tax consultant, let alone the items which can be tax deductable.
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Old Jul 18, 2005, 11:47 AM
Human Like You
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Colorado
Joined Feb 2001
1,616 Posts
Exactly Martin. You don't hire an estate lawyer, a tax lawyer, an accounting firm and an investment banker because it's a net loss. All these people make their money by reading the law very carefully and finding vehicles of investment, charities, foundations and whatever else that will reduce both corporate and individual tax liability, while protecting and growing capital.

That's why the tax law is a mess. It's a constant war between the legislators and the professional cheats.

Ever wonder why everyone with a few million laying around starts a foundation. Let's just say it isn't pure altruism, though many of those foundations and charities do great things.

Not to mention all the no tell banks in Grand Cayman, Switzerland, etc.

It's absolutely amazing to see how many US companies have off-shored some holding company entity or turned their most profitable divisions into dummy foreign subsidiaries. Most of the big names we all support have made it a priority to diminish their contribution to the country as much as possible.

Hey, it's only good business.
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