HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 21, 2002, 12:04 PM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Flaps and spoilerons one more time

Flaps and spoileron set up again

Having read everything I can find in this forum and on other sites about flap spoileron and engine setup .

Before setting up the MPX Profi 3010 which allows a lot of flexibility I'm looking for advice on what's best to put on the stick. The goal which is the choice which gives the most successful flying and landings.

The setup is for a Spiro E, AUW < 60 oz, wingspan 72" Jeti 30 on 10 CP or SR 1700s 10X6 with flaps and spoilerons.

Option 1: Motor on throttle stick. Flaps and spoilerons on switchs.
Pro: Having the motor on stick is the way I fly my other planes.
Con: lose all the flexibility with adjustable camber and adjustable glide path.

Option 2: Spoilerons on stick. Crow mixing would ensure that as spoilerons are deployed flaps likewise deploy. Engine on switch. Flap reflex and camber also on switch

Pro: More control of pitch
Con: Unfamiliar, loss of flexibility in camber adjustment, cant easily use the motor to go around.

Option 3: Flaps on stick. When flaps are deployed more than x % spoilerons are mixed in. Engine on switch, spoilerons on switch.

Pro: More control of pitch
Con: Mixing might be difficult to set up correctly. Needs experience. Fiddling with flap reflex is above my piloting skill at present. Pulling the flap switch down likely to kill the motor is a habit and will cause problems because spoilerons would also go up.


Option 4 Motor and flaps both on stick. Switch toggles between them. Spoilerons are mixed in flaps once flaps are deployed.

Pro: Flexibility of use of stick. Can use stick to control engine or flaps. Seems like launches will be safer with engine flexibilit

Cons: Difficult to program. Likely to forget which mode I'm in.


I'm leaning towards putting the spoilerons or the flaps on the stick but not sure which is best? I like option 4 but worry about the possibility for error.

All suggestions and advice greatfully considered.
davidleitch is offline Find More Posts by davidleitch
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 22, 2002, 04:46 PM
Sailplane Nut
NickW's Avatar
Providence, RI
Joined Nov 2000
344 Posts
I like Option 4, having both spoilers/flaps and throttle all on the same stick. You will most likely not forget what mode your in. Adjustable camber is nice, but if I had to choose between flaps or camber on a switch I would pick camber. I'd hate to have flaps drop to 90 degrees in half a second, whereas camber switching in and out is not the worst thing in the world.

Personally I say try all your options and see what you like. When your done you will know how to program anything in your radio!

I also dont quite understand the need for spoilers and flaps to be dealt with seperately. Why not just use a crow setup using both flaps and spoilers simultaneously?

Nick
NickW is offline Find More Posts by NickW
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24, 2002, 04:25 PM
Registered User
Elkhart,IN
Joined Dec 2001
40 Posts
spoilerons

You really have a bigger problem to solve than what controls what. As your spoilerons move up on landing, you will notice if you try to use them for directional control you have little, if you have any differential on them. As you try to turn right there is only a small movement down on the left spoilerons and no movement on the right.Opposite for left turns. If you lower them to the neutral position you will see whats going on, only a small amount of down left aileron is need to turn right and left is close to full up. If you have factored in spoilerons as a major way to slow down, then you will only use them briefly, or find some way to create reverse spoilerons when they are in the full up position, if you plan keeping directional control.

If anyone has this programing for JR8103 please e-mail me.
Rburson is offline Find More Posts by Rburson
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24, 2002, 07:07 PM
Registered User
ScotY's Avatar
Joined Feb 2001
2,818 Posts
I finallly figured out how to get reverse differential for spoilerons using my 8103! I stumbled upon this by accident and am not really sure how I did it...have to go back in and see later. I think my problem was that I had (and like it that way) the spoilerons go up when the throttle stick was full up, i.e. backwards from the norm. I guess this is why a bunch of guys like their 8103s a lot more than I was liking mine.
ScotY is offline Find More Posts by ScotY
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2002, 08:49 AM
Registered User
Elkhart,IN
Joined Dec 2001
40 Posts
spolierons

Good news , bad news, the spoilers are usually set netural with the stick in the up position, or at least that makes sense to me, as the stick moves down the flaps move down.I have a neat piece of programming that puts the motor on the spoiler stick then disables it, for use of flaps, the manual gives no clue this is possible.
Rburson is offline Find More Posts by Rburson
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2002, 07:20 PM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by NickW

I also dont quite understand the need for spoilers and flaps to be dealt with seperately. Why not just use a crow setup using both flaps and spoilers simultaneously?

Nick
Well showing my ignorance I thought that reflex would require the flaps and ailerons to both be reflexed up above neutral.

Can that be done if the normal movement of the stick is to raise spoilers and drop flaps or vice versa?

Probably will just go with crow on stick, engine on switch and see what happens. Some experience will probably be a hepl. Problem at the moment is never having used either spoilerons or flaps let alone both together.
davidleitch is offline Find More Posts by davidleitch
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2002, 12:00 PM
Registered User
Elkhart,IN
Joined Dec 2001
40 Posts
spolierons

Be aware that many ships pitch up when crow is applied, test this before landing.
Rburson is offline Find More Posts by Rburson
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 30, 2002, 06:50 PM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,875 Posts
I plan to keep this as simple as I can. So I will be going with "simple" crow on the stick and the engine on a slider which the MPX 3010 has. Camber will go on 3 position switch.

reverse spoilerons is a new term to me. I don't plan to implement it however does it mean that when the spoilers are up the ailerons are set to have a lot of down movement? I can see why this would be hard to program.

Because I have flaps (set to 45 degree max down) the need for spoilerons to slow down will be less critical (I believe) and so I will limit the spoileron upward movement to half aileron up travel. That should still give a reasonable degree of control won't it?

At the end of the day the Spiro is only a 60 oz ship and if I was any good probably wouldn't need spoilerons or flaps. However I plan to use it on a soccer field and that's where the ability to turn at slow speed in a small area without stalling will be handy and what I believe flaps should enable me to achieve.
davidleitch is offline Find More Posts by davidleitch
Reply With Quote
Old May 01, 2002, 04:04 AM
Turbines suck ;-)
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Mar 2000
1,636 Posts
mpx programming

Take a look at Mike Shellim's page - he has lots of good info on programming the MPX Tx.

http://www.rc-soar.com/
rorywquin is offline Find More Posts by rorywquin
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2006, 04:29 PM
trend
trend.ab's Avatar
Switzerland, Aargau, Lenzburg
Joined Jan 2006
413 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidleitch
I plan to keep this as simple as I can. So I will be going with "simple" crow on the stick and the engine on a slider which the MPX 3010 has. Camber will go on 3 position switch.

reverse spoilerons is a new term to me. I don't plan to implement it however does it mean that when the spoilers are up the ailerons are set to have a lot of down movement? I can see why this would be hard to program.

Because I have flaps (set to 45 degree max down) the need for spoilerons to slow down will be less critical (I believe) and so I will limit the spoileron upward movement to half aileron up travel. That should still give a reasonable degree of control won't it?

At the end of the day the Spiro is only a 60 oz ship and if I was any good probably wouldn't need spoilerons or flaps. However I plan to use it on a soccer field and that's where the ability to turn at slow speed in a small area without stalling will be handy and what I believe flaps should enable me to achieve.
David

I don't know whether this is too simple, but I have engine on the stick by default. When I switch a switch, then the engine does not turn on anymore, but I have now crow on the stick. At the same time, this switch turns on landing mode, so I have another aileron differential now (up only).
This switch, at the same time, is my "security" switch. As long as I handle the plane, the switch is always on security, so that a movement of the stick does not turn on the engine.

I have full span camber on a slider when in thermal mode. The other camber mix is speed, I use it as an offset only.

Have you considered this?

Beat
trend.ab is offline Find More Posts by trend.ab
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2006, 05:18 PM
more casual than stylish....
slopemeno's Avatar
Joined Jan 2003
6,985 Posts
If you bit the bullet and get the flaps down to 90 degrees I bet you wont need ANY other devices on landing, other than a touch of down trim. It may mean working out a bottom-hinging scheme, as well as moving your flap servo arm to have a rearward cant. I found them to be freakishly effective for landing my 100" slope racer in some tight spots,and it allows you to leave the ailerons alone so you still have great roll-control. ...FWIW, YMMV.
slopemeno is online now Find More Posts by slopemeno
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2006, 09:02 PM
Registered User
Western Montana
Joined Mar 2005
357 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidleitch
The goal which is the choice which gives the most successful flying and landings.

Regardless of how much flap travel or up aileron you wind up using, IMHO crow should be on the stick, motor on a switch, camber and reflex on a switch.

Even if you don't normally fly with a motor/switch it feels right very quickly. You will have the most control of glide path and approach speed by using crow/spoilerons on the stick. I think you will find that camber/reflex will be set at a specific mm setting so a switch makes sense for that.

That's my two cents worth...

David M
David McNeill is offline Find More Posts by David McNeill
Reply With Quote
Old May 03, 2006, 11:54 PM
An Original!
Joined Aug 2001
955 Posts
I would also recommend throttle on a switch since you really don't need the slow flight control. In addition if you are propped up for max climb and max amps any use of throttle control will more than likely overheat the ESC.

Flaps on the stick give your best landing control which (depending on the plane) is very important. Take offs are optional, landings are manditory.

Flaps, spoilerons, reflex or crow work nicely on sliders or if you don't have that then switches, although switches usually work best for dual rates or mixes like aileron/rudder etc.

Getting your Widgets (for MPX folks) in a row will make a big difference in how easy and efficient you can fly.
Gliderguy is offline Find More Posts by Gliderguy
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2006, 07:03 AM
antipodean recalcitrant
AntonL's Avatar
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Joined Feb 2004
3,171 Posts
Thread necromancy alert!

Somehow, I think the original poster would have resolved this question a long time ago.
AntonL is offline Find More Posts by AntonL
Reply With Quote
Old May 04, 2006, 07:48 AM
Registered User
Resurgam's Avatar
Vienna, VA, USA
Joined Dec 2005
831 Posts
OK David, so what setup did you finally choose?
Resurgam is offline Find More Posts by Resurgam
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One more time before Ebay: Tricked out Housefly. Jim McPherson Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Jan 29, 2003 07:39 AM
One more time-GWS Beaver dihedral ? Tom Smith Parkflyers 4 Oct 25, 2002 11:37 PM
One more time: Should I upgrade to CP to learn? Spaulding Electric Heli Talk 4 Feb 19, 2002 11:29 AM
Calculating Incidence, one more time MtnGoat Power Systems 4 Sep 19, 2001 05:58 PM
OK - gonna try the Cox Viper one more time.... Steve McBride Foamies (Kits) 74 Jul 13, 2001 06:21 PM