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Old Dec 26, 2006, 07:28 PM
Tinkerer
jfhspike's Avatar
RI
Joined May 2005
184 Posts
Balance

The neighbor kid built a T-1, with the Goldmine 4046, but his ESC kept cutting out on him. I gave him a J250, and that worked better...but he still just barely made the thing fly. The two main problems? (1) Heavy build. Lots of epoxy, with a more-is-better philosophy, and a rather heavy base-dowel to start with, (2) Balance. With a 700mAh ETEC lipo, he just couldn't move it far enough forward to make things balance at the CG. I added a small rock, told him to keep the nose down, and off he went...flew for 10 minutes with a huge grin.

The take-away message: if you're building a T-1, you might want to consider adding an inch to the nose so that you can hang your nice light LiPo a little further out in front.

The other take-away: it's a great design, and amazingly good for training beginners. The same day (Xmas) we had two other kids and a grownup all
fly MY T-1, generally spreading grins all over the neighborhood. Thanks, again!

--John
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 07:41 PM
Good glue is evil
melbourne australia
Joined Sep 2003
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GPW
how do you think your T1 would fly with just 2 channels, rudder and throttle ?
or does it realy need a EL as well
thanks
brucej
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 07:56 PM
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In my Blu heaven! near Lincoln NE
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Trainer One should be perfect for this!

I do not have any personal experience but I do know the theory pretty well.

First is stability. This plane has got it in spades.

Next simply balance and trim the plane so that with power on low or medium it will hold level flight. Power off it simply glides and loses altitude slowly.
Above medium power the plane climbs.

The rudder may need to be a little larger to have more authority since it will be the only moving control surface.

My two cents worth of opinion, Robert
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 08:05 PM
Good glue is evil
melbourne australia
Joined Sep 2003
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thanks robert
two cents well spent.

brucej
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 08:53 PM
Use whatcha got!
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Metairie, LA
Joined Sep 2000
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brucej - gpw and I were talking about this recently...

He pulled out some of his old RC gear to show me... Really cool stuff... Then he mentioned that we should do something 2 channel just for 'kicks'.

Throttle and rudder he said... Climbs under power, maintains altitude @ 50% throttle or something along those lines... Like Robert mentioned... the T1 has loads of stability. It would just be a matter of trimming the plane for flight, but I'd probably add about 5 degrees of incidence in the wing to help with the 'gaining altitude under power'.

-mike s.
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 09:12 PM
Good glue is evil
melbourne australia
Joined Sep 2003
774 Posts
good news thanks msmith
there is lots of 2 ch radio gear out there just waiting to go into a model

brucej
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Old Jan 14, 2007, 09:55 PM
Use whatcha got!
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Metairie, LA
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Now that I think about it... 5 degrees might be a bit much... 2 degrees maybe? Any expert opinions out there?

-mike s.
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Old Jan 15, 2007, 05:55 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Gosh , 2 sounds better ... but like the plans actually works ... just make the elevator adjustable for trimming the glide on those windy days...we used to shim the wing ... rubber band mounted...
Was showing MS my Ace Pulse Commander(1972) and assorted actuators (like todays , only BIGGER ... ) Fun stuff , kinda' simple , but strange with the tail flapping back and forth constantly .... we called them "buttbangers".. still works ... a testament to ACE RC , the Missouri boys...long gone to China... Single channel ( RO) is Fun , but takes getting used to ... planes are able to loop and roll and combinations thereof... addition of throttle gives amazing maneuverability...
Yes the T-1 should be built as per the plans , and as lightly as practical (use hot glue or something lighter)...adding more nose only admits to poor building habits (heavy)... The T-1 was designed to accept and balance with the eqpt. shown with a 2s1200 lipo batt (app 2 oz.)velcro'd on the nose .. this size battery gives ample 250 power, and longer flight times ...It takes along time to get a simple combination of parts that is consistent and flyable .,... changing any parameters only lessens the chance of success..
FYI ... Plywood weighs 57 lbs / cu. ft ... Foam is 1.3 (app)lbs / cu. ft... No plywood or very little ... PLEASE !!!
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Old Jan 15, 2007, 04:38 PM
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A simpler way to achieve the same effect as positive incidence in the wing and yet still be adustable as a rubberband mounted wing would be to put shims under the rear of the stabilizer like the Free Flight guys do.
This will allow a permanant wing mount for strength.

Huh? Huh? Waddaya say? Hee hee!

Robert
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Old Jan 15, 2007, 05:28 PM
Good glue is evil
melbourne australia
Joined Sep 2003
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thanks all
brucej
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 06:56 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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Willin .... actually in those days , the wing was rubberbanded on as an attempt at crashworthyness'... Hard impact , wings would pop off .... But , these planes weighed pounds rather than ounces , and if the wing didn't pop off , there would be only a shpping bag of balsa bits left over ...the tails most always suffered almost no damage...and were glued in place ...(good to be in the Back) so the old timers just shimmed the wing incidence with various balsa scraps , matchbook covers , or what ever FOD was found around the runway .... very effective and wouldn't interfere with any linkages going to the rudder ... That was a contraption unto itself ...
On the new T-1(RO) , you can just join the elevator with some copper wire bits , so as to make it adjustable ...simple ...

Bruce... trim it like Willin said and you should have a sweet flyer ...light and only one servo ...
Latest T-1 news: My FB G had me construct a 1.5 T-1 for him to teach
"mini-G " on ... Flew super with the BP-21... right .... Well FBG seemed to trust jr. a little too much .. Every time FB G would look away , even for a second,Mini G would fly the T-1 into a tree... Really , the plane has more tree time than air time ... that , and the kid has the record for flying into trees(More than I EVER did in 40 years )... The latest incident (SOS) , first five seconds of flight , the kid flies into the very top of a 75'+ cypress tree, and the plane sticks fast ... despite our rock throwing /slingshots , pellet gun , paintball gun , and attempts to psychically move the plane ... the plane stayed , broken wing wrapped around the limb as if a familar hug ... after a week of looking Up at as we drove by , Sunday , got to the field ... Plane gone ... out of the tree, not in the woods .... GONE !!!! I asked FB G isf he had put his name and # on the plane .... NO !!! was the reply .... DUH !!!! Write off one FMArx , P-25 esc , two brand new servos , and a new 3s 2300 lipo .... all for the lack of a simple name and phone number on the plane .... on mine , I write ... REWARD!!! and my phone #...
Now I built him a second one ... We'll see...
The large one just flies so slow ...and is as stable as a shopping cart...
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 06:35 PM
Tinkerer
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Another (small) mod

If (like the local kids) you leave off the wheels, you end up doing "skid" landings, and that battery up front may get a bit chewed up. The local kids made a "skid" (about 2.5" of foam that runs from the front down under the "stick", sorta like the front of a toboggan).

Result?
* Protects those lipos

* Lifts the front end just enough that they can roll off the ground (skid off the ground???) with full throttle.

* When they hit a tree, they're a little less likely to get stuck, because there are no wires for the wheels, etc.

-Spike
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 07:11 PM
Good glue is evil
melbourne australia
Joined Sep 2003
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gpw thats sad to hear someone has stolen your model, recently one of the guys who fly's at our local park, paid a tree guy to climb a 60 foot tree to get his model back, for what he charged it was worth it just to recover the r/c gear
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 07:33 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
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Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucej
GPW
how do you think your T1 would fly with just 2 channels, rudder and throttle ?
or does it realy need a EL as well
thanks
brucej
I just tried to fly a Yellow Bee. Two motors, two controls. No control surfaces. The climb and decend are controlled by the speed of both motors together. Power to climb, no power to descend. Now picture this: you descend to almost ground level - flare out for landiing [NOT]. Only way to land is let it "glide" into the ground - for the Yellow Bee that means CRASH. The Yellow Bee has a fairly high wing loading and only has stable flight at fairly high speed. Not pretty!

The A1 must have a lower wing loading and MAYBE you can trim it for a glide that is shallower and slower than the YB. Somebody should be able to try this by just keeping hands off of the elevator. Somebody, please try it and report, eh?

Thanks,
Walt
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 07:07 AM
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
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It wasn't mine , but my flying buddy G's ... no name no blame ... Maybe G will learn somthing from this ...
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