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Old Apr 18, 2002, 10:55 AM
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HardLander's Avatar
Minneapolis, USA
Joined Oct 2001
245 Posts
Where can I find parts for my Cobalt 4014?

One of the brush springs on my Cobalt 4014 snapped when my Zagi hit the sound barrier and exploded. I can't find a source for replacement springs.
Any ideas?
Thx.
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Last edited by HardLander; Apr 18, 2002 at 11:01 AM.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 11:02 AM
Registered User
Kings Park, New York, USA
Joined Sep 2001
813 Posts
Promax Parts

You know there are new style springs, with less tension for the Promax motors.

Anyway you can Contact Maxx Industries, or Kirk from New Creations.

If you wanted more power, you could also order another armature and change your 4014 into a 4013!

I would order a new set of brushes as well, and break it in. For the 4013, you probably want minimum of CP1300SCR cells. I use 8 in my Zag, but I think 9 would be fine. Use a Graupner 6.3x3 Cam Folder.

Good Luck
Ron Parigoris

BTW did you time the motor? How many amps are you pulling? If you do not know how to time, send it off to New Creations and let them do it.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 11:09 AM
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HardLander's Avatar
Minneapolis, USA
Joined Oct 2001
245 Posts
Thanks for the response. I'm using 10 cell 1250 SCR batteries. I timed it using a Whattmeter. The thing draws a bit over 20A at full throttle, static and can push the Zagi vertical for a while before the plane stalls. I use a 6x4 prop.
A 4013? Will that do more than speed up max RPM? I'm intrigued. I use a 50A Jeti controller so I can handle more current.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 01:28 PM
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HardLander's Avatar
Minneapolis, USA
Joined Oct 2001
245 Posts
rparigoris, could you post links for Maxx Industries and New Creations? I searched for both but found neither.
Thanks.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 02:01 PM
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Berks, England
Joined Jun 2001
598 Posts
They're www.maxxprod.com and www.newcreations-rc.com

Stuart
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 11:41 PM
Registered User
Kings Park, New York, USA
Joined Sep 2001
813 Posts
Hey Hardlander

Hey Hardlander

Take a look at Maxx website at thier 3 Promax motors. 4011, 4013, 4014.

The 4013 is a hotter motor than the 4014, and the 4011 is hotter than the 4013.

You could even make your 4014 a 4011 by changing armatures.

You say you are timed your motor with a Whatt meter.

A whatt meter is not accurate enough, unless perhaps it is the one for a slowflier.

Do you know what I mean by timing?

The position brushes in relation to the magnets.

The way you time it, is first off you need a good max. of 6 volt source that will not change much. A precision power supply or a fairly large 6V lead acid battery will do.

Or you could even parallel 2 packs of 5 cell ea nicads like your 1250mAs.

Now you need a nice multi meter that can measure amps (prefer it goes to 10 amps). Make very short leads, and make them out of thick wire if you can. Sometimes the leads are very thin, and may not give good results due to high resistance. The thicker and shorter the better.

Now with no load, that means take off the prop, run it in the direction you will in fact fly, and adjust the end bell to get to the lowest possable amp draw.

Once there make a mini scribe mark.

Now there are a few ways to advance. Advance means rotating the endbell opposite the direction of ratation.

You can follow your instructions, or if you do not have them, download a PDF file from Maxx website.

Or you can start with advancing 1 amp over the minimum. Then you could go 1.5 amps or even a bit more. The more you advance over 1 amp the more you will be asking from your motor.

I do not and would not advise you to run wide open the whole flight. Give some partial and also some motor off.

You also say you are using a 6x4 prop. Did you try a 7x3?

You have some nice cells, the 1250SCRs but their weight is heavy. For a nice power to weight, you may want to consider Zapped CP1300SCRs, or you could go to CP1700SCRs for about the same weight of your 1250SCRs.

I am wondering why your springs broke? If you did not time, the brushes will get real hot and wear out real quick. For ha has, check real careful that the copper braid on the brushes have a good solder joint to the little board with the mini capacitors. If you are trying to complete a path of 20 amps through the springs, it will frazzle real quick.

Even if you keep the 4014, you may want to try the 6.3x3 Graupner cam folder. It seems to work real well on my THL with 4013 and 8 CP1300SCRs.

Kirk is a good guy to talk to to see how many amps you can push.

If you wanted a real wicked fast craft, since you have high amp dump cells, go for a 4011 and prop to ~25 amps. Again, not full for the entire flight.

Probably somewhere around a 5x3 APC will give you great great speed, look at the APC 6x2, or you can get a 6x3 and trim for 25 amps.

Fool in P-Calc. http://custompaintjob.com/ezcalc/dma.asp to get an idea of what different batteries, props and motors does. You can fool with 4011, 4013, 4014, CP1300s CP1700s and 1250SCRs, they are all in there. The motors are under Maxx.

Let us know how you make out, and also if the motor was in fact timed for reverse rotation, and if the solder joints to the copper braid was in good shape.

1 More thing, not a bad idea to install a shottky diode on the promax. Escential on a twin, but on mine i had some radio glitching, and I installed 1. It ended up rerouting the antenna out the wing tip cured my woes, but it also ended up that I think the motor throttles better. Don't think it added power, just made partial throttle settings more precise and easy to do. Prior it was kind of a bit of all on, or all off.

Good Luck
Ron Parigoris

I am making a twin with Promax 4011s, and 10 Zapped RC2400s. Will try for 100mph. Will try 4.7x4.7, 4.75x4 and 5x3 props. It is best to chose a prop that will not have much more pitch speed than the fastest you plan on flying. Bottom line is performance rules. Fool with props, and ye will many times increase performance. Often 2 Mfgs, of the same size and pitch prop, will yield way different results.
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Old Apr 19, 2002, 12:43 PM
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rpage53's Avatar
Victoria, BC, Canada
Joined Apr 2001
3,397 Posts
Re: Hey Hardlander

Quote:
Originally posted by rparigoris
I am wondering why your springs broke
Over 200 Watts and 18000 rpm. 250 watts is the absolute maximum and 80-100 watts are going up as heat.

The replacement springs are softer and give a few % more efficiency.

Rick.
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Old Apr 19, 2002, 12:53 PM
Registered User
Kings Park, New York, USA
Joined Sep 2001
813 Posts
Hey Rick

Hey Rick

Thx for the reply.

I am pretty certain that heat was the culprit.

If the motor is running with timing retarded, it will heat up the brush area way more than with a properly timed motor.

I am curious if running full throttle the whole flight on 10 cell 1250s on a properly timed motor did them in, or if retarded timing did them in.

Or there is something else that did them in.

Ron Parigoris
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Old Apr 19, 2002, 12:57 PM
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gkamysz's Avatar
Chicagoland
Joined Feb 2000
7,270 Posts
If you send a self addressed stamped envelope to:
Maxx Products
815 Oakwood Rd Unit D
Lake Zurich, IL 60047

Let us know where you bought your motor and we will send you the newer set of springs free of charge.

Greg Kamysz
Maxx Products
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Old Apr 19, 2002, 01:57 PM
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HardLander's Avatar
Minneapolis, USA
Joined Oct 2001
245 Posts
Thanks, Greg! I'll send off the SASE today.
I never flew the motor full throttle for more than a few seconds. I did a few full-power vertical runs until stalling but then throttled back to half power or less for level flight. I had plenty of power-off gliding mixed in as well. The motor got very hot during short static power tests but felt much cooler after flights. There's no discoloration of the remaining piece of spring. Heat could have caused the failure but I can't find any obvious proof.
The Zagi blew up during its first screaming dive. It was rock solid until a tiny wing fluctuation appeared and then it exploded. One of the CF stiffening arrowshafts wasn't properly glued into its trench. There was a deep nick in the propeller but the motor shaft is perfectly straight. The ESC switch was smashed. I think that caused the nick in the prop.
Once I get the new springs I will retime the motor and go back up!
Thanks again!
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