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Old Apr 18, 2002, 12:41 AM
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HavingFun2002's Avatar
Reston, VA
Joined Feb 2002
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CM Rudder Aileron Mixing Question

Just put together my new Crazy Max and Iím looking forward to flying it. However, I canít seem to figure out the Rudder Aileron mixing function on my HiTec Flash 5. This is my first plane with Ailerons.

I have the following:

Ch 1 Aileron (Single Servo)
Ch 2 Elevator
Ch 3 Throttle
Ch 4 Rudder

I followed the directions in my Tx manual, and turned on Rudder Aileron mixing, however when turning plane from right to left and left to right, using the Ailerons the rudder only moves one direction. Left if the rate is set below 0 and right (rev) if the rate is set above 0. For example, if I turn right, the rudder also turns right, but when turning left, the rudder does not move. It looks as if the radio is assuming Iím using two servos for my Ailerons, which Iím not.

Any ideas?
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 03:21 AM
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Kamloops, BC, Canada
Joined Feb 2002
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not related to your radio, but I'm curious... having never flown a CM, I was wondering why you might want to mix the aileron and rudder. Given proper differential aileron, it's not necessary and in a higher performance airplane can even be a hazard at slow speeds
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer
not related to your radio, but I'm curious... having never flown a CM, I was wondering why you might want to mix the aileron and rudder. Given proper differential aileron, it's not necessary and in a higher performance airplane can even be a hazard at slow speeds
I guess my question would be, why do you hook the rudder up to a servo if you don't use it. I'm not sure I should use R/A mixing. Thoughts?
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 07:57 AM
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St. Pete, Florida
Joined Sep 2001
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HF, when setting up the mixing you have to move the stick that you are mixing to to adjust the other side.

For instance with the A->R mixing, you set the minus value first, then move the Aileron stick a bit and it changes to plus then you set the value.

Same with the end point adjustments, you have to move the sticks to be able to adjust the other endpoint.

Hope this makes sense.

BC
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 08:46 AM
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Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Assuming you'll be doing aerobatics (I believe that's what a CM is made for, isn't it?) you will want the two independant of each other, such that your rolls are more axial and your hammerheads are "level" in the vertical plane, just to name a few. If you've had the mixing recommended to you for reasons of learning to fly an aileron plane, again like I say, I've never flown a CM so I can't comment on whether that's a good idea specifically for that ship. However, any aileron/rudder/elevator (4 channel) aircraft I've flown, I've not put in any a/r mixing. I watched that mixing, combined with over-control at slow speed on final approach cause a partial snap/spin (not my plane, thankfully). It was only a 1/4 turn but nonetheless a show I never forgot, as the plane quickly started shedding pieces cartwheeling down the field.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 09:41 AM
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Reston, VA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Basketcase
HF, when setting up the mixing you have to move the stick that you are mixing to to adjust the other side.

For instance with the A->R mixing, you set the minus value first, then move the Aileron stick a bit and it changes to plus then you set the value.

Same with the end point adjustments, you have to move the sticks to be able to adjust the other endpoint.

Hope this makes sense.

BC
I think this is what I was not doing. You da man!!
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 09:42 AM
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Reston, VA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer
Assuming you'll be doing aerobatics (I believe that's what a CM is made for, isn't it?) you will want the two independant of each other, such that your rolls are more axial and your hammerheads are "level" in the vertical plane, just to name a few. If you've had the mixing recommended to you for reasons of learning to fly an aileron plane, again like I say, I've never flown a CM so I can't comment on whether that's a good idea specifically for that ship. However, any aileron/rudder/elevator (4 channel) aircraft I've flown, I've not put in any a/r mixing. I watched that mixing, combined with over-control at slow speed on final approach cause a partial snap/spin (not my plane, thankfully). It was only a 1/4 turn but nonetheless a show I never forgot, as the plane quickly started shedding pieces cartwheeling down the field.
That would never happen to me. :-)
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 09:44 AM
Fly
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My full house experience is limited to my own deMeatray II, but dMT I taught me how adverse adverse yaw can be (rolling left/right causing yawing right/left). I tamed that with asymmetrical ailerons (more up/less down, significantly handicapping inverted performance), and by quadrupling the size of the vertical stab (no controllable rudder).

With dMT II having a real rudder, I clicked in 25% aileron to rudder mix, and that virtually eliminated the adverse yaw. The Eclipse radio has a switch (upper left side) that will let you switch the mix on and off (if the mix setting has been enabled).

I would think that some aileron/rudder mix, either auto or with thumbs, is absolutely necessary to get good axial rolls.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 09:48 AM
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At this point I think I'll experiment with both mixing on and mixing off, and see what results I'll get. I guess that's the fun of the hobby.

Any CM flyers out there with some helpful hints?
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 02:37 PM
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let us know how it goes I'm curious now as to how it will effect the CM specifically
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 03:58 PM
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I would suggest not using rudder/aileron mixing with the crazy max. You will gain nothing performance- or trimming-wise. If you want to mess with mixing, mix ailerons and elevator. I have my crazy set up with elevator and aileron mixing, so tight square loops and other 90ļ maneuvers are easily possible.

-Todd
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 04:21 PM
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dmiller's Avatar
Dallas, TX
Joined Sep 2001
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I have a CM but only a basic 4 ch. transmitter. I am no expert since this is my first aerobatic plane, but I have noticed when I do aileron rolls that if I manually mix the rudder in it keeps the plane from losing altitude.
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Old Apr 18, 2002, 04:27 PM
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2001
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Another CM owner here, and I would agree with Todd, no need to mix aileron and rudder.

The beauty of this type of plane is that you have control of roll, pitch, and yaw independently and purely. There is very little coupling. You will have plenty of turning ability without using the rudder at all (bank and pull back on the stick), and in fact this is how many people fly. After you master that, you will begin to appreciate how to bring in the rudder for various maneuvers and to make more coordinated turns (rudder is also necessary on the ground).

If you still have questions like "why use the rudder", email me and I'll talk your ear off about it.

- Zoom -
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Old Apr 19, 2002, 12:26 AM
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Flight Report

Well, I took the new CM to the field today, with mixing off. Good thing, when I got back to the house I realized that the rudder was reversed.

The plane flies great, one of the best climbers that Iíve flown. With the ailerons, this thing flies like my FMA Razor, you have to have a light touch. I set Expo and DR low, at least until I get use to this thing. However, I turned it back up and had no problem on my 3rd flight. I did not do much acrobatics, however, other than some quick turns and dives.

Here is the kicker. On my 5th flight, I took a turn too fast and too low. Heading for the ground I backed way off of the throttle and pulled up. However, went right into the ground. Not too bad, a dent in the wing, broken motor mount, and that plastic stuff between the wing and the fuselage crushed a bit. I few minutes with 5 min epoxy and my CM is ready for action tomorrow. At the same time I taped the wings and fuselage like I did the my Mini Max, should fare better with ďrough landings.Ē

I still canít get my rudder to mix in both directions with my HiTec Flash 5. If anyone knows how to do this drop me a note, need a step-by-step. I read the directions for a 3rd time, I think Iím doing everything right. I would like to try the CM with mixing on, after seeing some of these posts.
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Old Apr 21, 2002, 08:38 AM
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St. Pete, Florida
Joined Sep 2001
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HF, to program my Flash 5, I go into the menu for AIL<-->RUD, use the left horiz trim button to make -0 (minus zero) show on the display, then use the right horiz. trim button to set the minus percent, then move the right stick a tiny bit to the right so a plus sign shows on the display and use the right trim button to set the plus percent.

The last step is using the Cut/Save button to change the display from "OFF" to "ON"

Exit out and you're done.

BC
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