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Old Mar 08, 2006, 03:48 AM
Got shenpa?
flieslikeabeagle's Avatar
Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buena Vista
Actually, I know who mentioned this not that long ago over on the Magister Forum. If you go to http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=478 you should see what she said. An ol friend of Brandie who just likes to lurk in the background.

Well I guess I am no longer a lurker.
I'm pretty sure I learned of this trick from someone else, but who knows, perhaps he learned it from your friend Brandie. Or it was a case of independent duplicate discovery.

In any case, many thanks to your friend, and anyone else who came up with this idea! I was really not looking forward to dealing with that much CA and kicker. Read the Magister thread for a scary and amusing tale of a person who managed to very nearly glue his trousers to his skin, his shoes to the floor, and his hands to his Magister while trying to glue the fuse halves together!

Buena Vista, congratulations on your first post! Welcome to non-lurker status on RC Groups!

-Flieslikeabeagle
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 04:53 AM
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Bill Glover's Avatar
United Kingdom, Bracknell
Joined Nov 2000
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I assume the TS2's 2-part wing is primarily for MPX's ease of packaging / distribution - smaller box! A 1-piece wing of that size will fit in any car I know of, unless it's already full of other planes or passengers! I routinely join 2-piece wings together for strength / simplicity / convenience.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 11:39 AM
Yaaaa Hooooo
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Yuba City California
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flieslikeabeagl
I'm pretty sure I learned of this trick from someone else, but who knows, perhaps he learned it from your friend Brandie. Or it was a case of independent duplicate discovery.

Buena Vista, congratulations on your first post! Welcome to non-lurker status on RC Groups!

-Flieslikeabeagle
Yea, you know I have been just sitting in the background for over a year just reading and following along on several threads. I guess I was moved as they say to make a coment. I guess if you sit and read long enough you have to make a coment. I remember meeting Brandie in a lhs and she got us into RC. Showed us about boiling water to fix the EZ*. Showed us how to use tape o assemble the EZ*.

Hey Brandie, I see you found an excuse to post a picture of the HIMMER.
Maybe if the weather clears we'll bring the kids over to go flying this weekend.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 12:02 PM
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United States, CA, Oakland
Joined Dec 2002
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[QUOTE=Grassy Knoll]Yea I know about that space problem.
When I go flying I usually pack in 6 to 10 planes in the back of my Hummer Type 1. (yellow of course.)
I break down some but others I leave intact. Like the Easy Glider Electric and the Cargo plane. It is too much of a problem to break down.
I am thinking of getting a trailor for it though. That way I have a little more room

Hey now,
I've seen the civie version of the Hummers, didn't like it very much (personal thing), not near as much room inside as you'd think is there? That and the fact that I almost never need/want to go off road in any serious way makes me think it just isn't right for me. I can get much more gear in a full sized van.
So far my record for models in the Porsche is eighteen but they were stacked pretty thick.
RobII
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 12:10 PM
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United States, CA, Oakland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcosta
Other than being 25% lighter, which does not really matter for the TS2 as you need lead to balance it with some lipo packs, and costing at least 3 times more than an 8 cell NiMH pack, and taking 3-4 times as long to re-charge, which are these huge advantages?

I think it is time for the essential questions:

- Have you flown a stock Twinstar 2???

- Have you flown your 2-3 times more expensive Twinstar 2?
Hey now,
I've not yet flown the TSII in either configuration, however my TSI was flown with both the stock set up and with dual Kontroniks and the difference was pretty big. Funny side note:
For me it would be more expensive to go with the "cheaper" stock set up.
I don't have any BRJs in usable shape, so I'd have to buy some. Mine are all old and tired can't hold a full charge and don't discharge well either. I recently tried a set in my hot liner and they kept tripping the LVC just ramping up to full throttle fresh off the charger.
I do have *plenty* of 3s LiPo packs though, I figure going with what I already have is the cheapest route. YMMV of course...
RobII
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 12:23 PM
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United States, CA, Oakland
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Hey now,
On the build front, today I get to glue up the fuse; I'm just going to Ca it together, worked just fine on the T.J. and Sonic so I don't expect any problems. Then it's just sand the fuse and finish installing the avionics
I still haven't decided on BL or P.480s so I'm setting up for both options, I just need to run an extra servo extension for this as I'd put the ESCs in the naicelles (sp?). My biggest problem right now is what colours do I use to paint the thing? I'm *not* going to leave it white; I fly at the coast and fog and overcast make white planes invisable Should I go with a Peter Max/Caulder look or something more sedate? Ah the rough questions in life...
RobII
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 12:54 PM
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flieslikeabeagle's Avatar
Los Angeles
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcosta
Other than being 25% lighter, which does not really matter for the TS2 as you need lead to balance it with some lipo packs, and costing at least 3 times more than an 8 cell NiMH pack, and taking 3-4 times as long to re-charge, which are these huge advantages?
I think you're mistaking the context. We're talking about using a 3S lipo pack vs using a 2S lipo pack. For the same current draw, you can expect 50% more power from the same motor running on a 3S pack than a 2S pack. That's a huge advantage in any language.

As for NiMH packs, a 7 cell seems to cost around $30 - $50, depending on brand and source. I paid $33 for a 2000 mAh, 3S, 10C Apex lipo pack. So no, the NiMH pack is not cheaper. It is certainly heavier, if weight is being considered an advantage. Could be useful if you want to use your Twinstar II to club small animals, I suppose. (No small animals were harmed in the writing of this sentence. All animal action was supervised and approved by the "George Bush supporters for peace" club, which, sadly, has a rather small membership.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcosta
- Have you flown a stock Twinstar 2???


- Have you flown your 2-3 times more expensive Twinstar 2?
The answer to the first is no, and I don't intend to.

Your second question sounds awfully like lawyerish weasel-talk, a bit like asking the question "Do you beat your spouse often?".

If you read through my previous posts, you will see that I have repeatedly posted the prices of the brushless motors/ESCs I used, and they are entirely comparable with the cost of the brushed motor 480 swaps discussed by others. So I do not have a "2-3 times more expensive Twinstar 2" to fly.

If you're asking if I've flown my Twinstar II with the inexpensive twin brushless setup yet, the answer is still no. Enjoy that while you can!

-Flieslikeabeagle
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 02:35 PM
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53859 Niederkassel, Germany
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flieslikeabeagl
...
Seriously, as I mentioned before, it's quite true that many small BEC's cannot handle 4 servos on 3S. But I think that's a very poor reason for throwing away the huge advantages of using a higher voltage lipo pack, when it is so easy to work around the problem if necessary: just buy a Dimension Engineering Parkbec, or a UBEC, or use a $1 surplus automotive cellphone charger (they have a switching regulator built in: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hing+regulator ).

-Flieslikeabeagle
In contrary to brushed motors, the higher voltage of a 3s pack is not a problem when using brushless motors, provided your BEC system can support four servos at 12V. Some cheap "auxiliary BEC systems" may provide too much ripple for the RC-equipment - so be careful.

This is also no "new logic" - as I have already warned about using inferior BEC systems on the following pages:

Page 4 - Post #50
Page 11 - Post #159
Page 14 - Post #206
Page 22 - Posts #325 to #328
Page 24 - Post #348
Page 36 - Post #532
Page 77 - Post #1150
Page 79 - Post #1183
Page 83 - Post #1234

The subject seems to come up again and again (not counting the posts in the EasyGlider Electric thread ). Obviously some people need to learn it the hard way, and hopefully they don't hurt anybody (and I don't mean Flieslikeabeagle here, as he already went for bigger ESCs in his TSII).

And please don't try to build your own "Super-BEC" from a $1.- surplus automotive cellphone charger when you don't know what you are doing.

Jürgen
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 03:22 PM
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Norway
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Jurgen Heilig

I am about to put my TwinstarI together and I wondered to use brushed motors like the Permax480 or the Permax 450turbo. Do you think that these will handle a 3 cell lipo and what prop would you suggest? I am asking because I have a lot of 3cell packs but no Nimh packs. It would be good to save the money for the nimh packs and use them to buy other equipment instead.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 03:57 PM
SlopeHead
jcosta's Avatar
Lisboa, Portugal
Joined Jan 2004
2,882 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flieslikeabeagl
As for NiMH packs, a 7 cell seems to cost around $30 - $50, depending on brand and source.
I paid $30 for a 3000 NiMh 8 cell pack. It weights 170 grams more than the Kokam 3200 MAh pack.
Quote:
The answer to the first is no, and I don't intend to.
So you keep talking about something you don't know except from theory
Quote:
If you read through my previous posts, you will see that I have repeatedly posted the prices of the brushless motors/ESCs I used, and they are entirely comparable with the cost of the brushed motor 480 swaps discussed by others. So I do not have a "2-3 times more expensive Twinstar 2" to fly.
My Twinstar 2 has, in addition to the stock motors and props, a $35 37A Esc plus the above mentioned $30 3000MAh 8 cell pack. Are you telling me that between Lipos, brushless motors and 2 ESCs you spent less than $130???
Quote:

If you're asking if I've flown my Twinstar II with the inexpensive twin brushless setup yet, the answer is still no. Enjoy that while you can!
So you are still talking about theoretical calculations and not reality.
I would suggest until you get real experience instead of theories based on a motor manufacturer's publicity, that you refrain from mocking others who do have practical experience.
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 04:03 PM
SlopeHead
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfwreck
Hey now,
I've not yet flown the TSII in either configuration, however my TSI was flown with both the stock set up and with dual Kontroniks and the difference was pretty big. Funny side note:
For me it would be more expensive to go with the "cheaper" stock set up.
I don't have any BRJs in usable shape, so I'd have to buy some. Mine are all old and tired can't hold a full charge and don't discharge well either. I recently tried a set in my hot liner and they kept tripping the LVC just ramping up to full throttle fresh off the charger.
I do have *plenty* of 3s LiPo packs though, I figure going with what I already have is the cheapest route. YMMV of course...
RobII
Yes. but flieslikeabeagle is not talking about serious brushless motors. And if you had to buy the Kontroniks again, it's well over $100 each, plus ESC/s. (although right now I would go for the Multiplex BL-400s or BL-480s. I've got a BL-4804G and that has a thrust of over 1.3 kilos on 8 cells at 23 Amps...).

Anyway, you can testify that the TS1 flies perfectly well on the stock setup. However, with the kontroniks it is probably a 150+mph rocket...
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 04:11 PM
SlopeHead
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined Jan 2004
2,882 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flieslikeabeagl
Read the Magister thread for a scary and amusing tale of a person who managed to very nearly glue his trousers to his skin, his shoes to the floor, and his hands to his Magister while trying to glue the fuse halves together!

-Flieslikeabeagle
Yep, that was Splash99, who managed to glue my finger to a table in his flying field when I visited him in Switzerland. He has a problem when he cuts open his CA bottles, he cuts too much. I glued my Magister with CA and kiker without any problems...
BTW, all I've read in the Magister's thread about power systems is mostly wrong. It goes perfectly well with an AXI 2820/10, 8 cell pack and a 10x7 APC-E prop. With this setup it is already on the limit of the airframe's resistance... Contrary to whatever calc programs, it takes off in less than 30' and it is capable of all aerobatic manouvres (except hover) from level flight...
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 05:15 PM
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United States, CA, Oakland
Joined Dec 2002
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[QUOTE=jcosta]Yes. but flieslikeabeagle is not talking about serious brushless motors.

Hey now,
I s'opse it depends on what you consider "serious" They aren't what I'd buy, but if he's happy with them...

And if you had to buy the Kontroniks again, it's well over $100 each, plus ESC/s.

Yeah, something like that, $129 I think, and the Kontronik controllers are pricey at $99, That's part of why I use the castle Creations units, cheaper and easier to deal with on warrenty issues.

(although right now I would go for the Multiplex BL-400s or BL-480s. I've got a BL-4804G and that has a thrust of over 1.3 kilos on 8 cells at 23 Amps...).

I wasn't impressed by the MPX motors. Awfuly heavy for the power out and the eff. isn't that great either. But then I'm hooked on Hacker and Kontronik (when I can afford them).

Anyway, you can testify that the TS1 flies perfectly well on the stock setup.

Hmmm, "perfectly well"... It flies o.k., if you breakin and advance the timing on the motors it does all the basic stuff including slide and goes, sure.

However, with the kontroniks it is probably a 150+mph rocket...

No way! It hits a wall around seventy no matter what and at those speeds you can fold a wing quickly

But if I wanted real speed I'd just go fly my lead sled at the slope, there speed is free, just add ballast
RobII
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 05:22 PM
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Contrary to whatever calc programs, it takes off in less than 30' and it is capable of all aerobatic manouvres (except hover) from level flight...[/QUOTE]

Hey now,
'calc programmes are al;ways a bit conservetive. I don't personaly use them I look at watts in, watts out, thrust, and AUW and finger it out from there. I generaly come as close as any other method.
beyond that, the Magister can't hover with that package?!?
What good is a power model that can't hover?!?!

Sorry, I couldn't help it. I personaly fly everything from gliders to f5d stuff to 3d, it all depends on how I feel at the time and sometimes too much power is just enough
RobII
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Old Mar 08, 2006, 05:33 PM
SlopeHead
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Lisboa, Portugal
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfwreck
Sorry, I couldn't help it. I personaly fly everything from gliders to f5d stuff to 3d, it all depends on how I feel at the time and sometimes too much power is just enough
RobII
I personally fly anything that can be sloped (PSS, scale, F3F, combat EPP), winch launched (F3B) and electrics.
And I power my planes to the level I want to fly them. The TS2 is great stock, I want it to fool around, my E-Pike fuse for Superior/Brio goes at the tune of 850 Watts/in with a Lehner Basic XL3600 and Reisenauer 4:1 gearbox, I want it to climb to winch height at winch speed. My Magister behaves like a .40 trainer and my Mini Ellipse E-fuse has Multiplex BL-4804G with a thrust to weight ratio of about 1.4. My EasyStar is for lazy days and teaching the kids, it's stock...
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