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Old Jul 30, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Question regarding the Multiplex Power Pack with Himax 2812-1080 motors and BL-17 speed controls. The Multiplex site states this is optimized for two lipo packs but I'd rather stick with one 3S for simlicity and the fact I have another plane using 3S. Can this setup be wired (ESC's) in parallel for one battery? Trying to determin why Multiplex states 2x packs.

I'm a new pilot (not new to RC, have a T-rex 500 and old Goldberg Eagle 2) and have read through this thread so much I'll probably get in trouble at work. It seems the stock motors would be doable for training and mild sport flying but I'd need a battery pack (Nimh or 2S lipo) which I can't use in anything else. For simplicity sake, is going brushless in the beginning worth it? Hopefully this doesn't start a debate, just trying to determine where to throw limited $$'s.

Thanks!
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Citationfxr View Post
Question regarding the Multiplex Power Pack with Himax 2812-1080 motors and BL-17 speed controls. The Multiplex site states this is optimized for two lipo packs but I'd rather stick with one 3S for simlicity and the fact I have another plane using 3S. Can this setup be wired (ESC's) in parallel for one battery? Trying to determin why Multiplex states 2x packs.
...
Where did you read this? The brushless set asks for one 3s battery (3s/3000mAh):

http://www.multiplex-rc.de/en/produc...4509a3f3ab1f13

Jürgen
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Citationfxr View Post
... but I'd need a battery pack (Nimh or 2S lipo) which I can't use in anything else. ...
How much is a 2s/3200mAh nowadays? Next to nothing.

How much does a flight cost you, when you get let's say 500 flights out of it? Think about it.

Jürgen
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Citationfxr View Post
For simplicity sake, is going brushless in the beginning worth it?
Thanks!
I can't speak for anyone else, but it was totally worth it to me. The brushed-motor setup is heavy, the small propellers provide rather low thrust, and the pitch speed is faster than it should be, thanks to the high rpm of the brushed motor.

There is no need to pay premium prices for Multiplex-recommended motors and ESC's for this model. It's not an indoor pattern F3P model - you don't need exotic power levels or absurdly low weight or exceptional motor efficiency. In fact, all you need is something cheap-n-cheerful that outperforms the stock heavy and inefficient (barely 50% at full load!) brushed motors, and that is a very low bar to hurdle.

It's been several years since I built my TS-II, but I used a pair of $20 brushless outrunners, two budget Castle ESC's, and a single 3S, 2100 mAh lipo pack powering both motors. With added paint job and tricycle landing gear, my TS-II ended up weighing about 18 oz (!!) less than Multiplex' stated brushed motor/NiCd pack 54 oz weight. It flew wonderfully with a wide speed envelope thanks to the light weight, and was quite aerobatic if you were in the mood for that sort of thing.

Today you can probably slash my costs in half without too much trouble. Look for cheap outrunners that can handle 10 amps continuous current (per motor), with a Kv around 1000 rpm/V or so. Slap on a pair of APC 8x6 Thin Electric props, wire up a pair of cheap Turnigy 20 A ESC's, and off you go!

One tip, plan your wiring carefully before you build! There are a lot of wires to deal with. I put one ESC in each motor nacelle, right behind the motor it drove. I also permanently glued the two wing halves together, cut a small cavity in the foam wing, and mounted my RC receiver also in the wing. Only two servo cables (rudder and elevator) and one battery connector needed to leave the wing and go into the fuselage. Assembly was quick at the park, and most of the wiring was buried in the foam wing.

There are photos and wiring details of my build somewhere far back in this thread - probably circa 2006 or so.

-Flieslikeabeagle
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by flieslikeabeagle View Post
...
The brushed-motor setup is heavy, the small propellers provide rather low thrust, and the pitch speed is faster than it should be, thanks to the high rpm of the brushed motor.
...
Well, the supplied PERMAX 400, 6V, brushed motors weigh 73g each, while the new brushless outrunners PERMAX BL-O 2830-1100 weigh 52g each. You won't save much weight here, especially when you consider the heavier props for the outrunners and the additional ESC. Going from NiCd/NiMH to Lipo - that's were you save weight.

Sure, the thrust of the supplied motors is rather low, but more than adequate for the purpose of this model (including simple aerobatics). If you want a lower pitch speed - no problem - just replace the 5x4.5" props by 6x3" props.

It has all been discussed before - right here in this thread.

Jürgen
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
Where did you read this? The brushless set asks for one 3s battery (3s/3000mAh):

http://www.multiplex-rc.de/en/produc...4509a3f3ab1f13

Jürgen
not everyone lives on .de web sites.

http://www.multiplexusa.com/power-an...ower_pack.html
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig View Post
How much is a 2s/3200mAh nowadays? Next to nothing.

How much does a flight cost you, when you get let's say 500 flights out of it? Think about it.

Jürgen

i agree... 2s lipos are pretty inexpensive (though, a bunch of lipos are pretty darn inexpensive these days). i believe some are unable to make the initial investment despite that and are looking to use what they already have.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 07:10 AM
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not everyone lives on .de web sites.

http://www.multiplexusa.com/power-an...ower_pack.html
Well, MPX USA sometimes comes up with "strange" recommendations ... Recommend to always check the "main site" first.

Jürgen
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 07:37 AM
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to be fair, those of us in the USA first hit upon the multiplexusa.com site. the only link to multiplex-rc.de is the German flag. at least that's the only one i can see. i doubt many think to click that as it simply looks like part of the logo at the top. it's a shame there isn't consistency between the two. maybe there is a reason for that or maybe it's just being lazy. anyway, i was just pointing out why Citationfxr was getting differing information.
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lowdive View Post
... i was just pointing out why Citationfxr was getting differing information.
Not only differing information, but also somewhat strange information. Of course you don't need two 2s/3200mAh packs for subject drive system. One will do.

Jürgen
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 09:56 AM
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lost in translation? hehe
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Jurgen
Do you work for Multiplex?
It seems you always recommend their product, which is significantly more expensive than the competitive product out there.
Is there a reason?
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Shadrack View Post
Jurgen
Do you work for Multiplex?
It seems you always recommend their product, which is significantly more expensive than the competitive product out there.
Is there a reason?
Of course I am neither working for Multiplex, I am not even working in the model industry.

When talking about competitive or alternative products, I think you should always compare it with recommended product, as a baseline. If you find something with better performance for the same price ... Go for it! If you find something with similar performance at a better price ... Why not? If you are not sure about the performance, don't get fooled by a low price. There is a saying "Buy cheap, buy twice".

Jürgen
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Old Jul 31, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Thanks to all for the replies regarding power set up. Jurgen, for posting over and over (and being very polite about it) that the stock brushed set up works fine and flieslikeabeagle for your brushless build info and pics, I will be going back to 2006 posts to read more. I really like your landing gear configuration, much more scale looking than many I've seen, it just looks "right".

Says a lot for the airplane that owners are happy with so many different power configurations.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 11:10 PM
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I really like your landing gear configuration, much more scale looking than many I've seen, it just looks "right".
Thank you! The tires and wheels were oversized, but I was flying off grass, and big tires were mandatory. The nose wheel was steerable (and operated by the rudder servo), so that you could taxi the model out to a scale-looking take off, and taxi it back in after a scale-looking landing.
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Says a lot for the airplane that owners are happy with so many different power configurations.
It's a nice airframe, with lower drag than you'd expect from the chunky shape.

Unfortunately it's rather expensive for what it is, which is essentially a few chunks of crisply moulded packing foam. These days there are plenty of nicer-looking EPO foam models available, with better detailing and smoother surface finish, and at lower cost as well. If I were looking for a twin electric RC model today, I'd probably consider this one first: http://www.nitroplanes.com/60a-dy893...-eretract.html

Like any model aircraft, the TS-II flies best if built light and given the right balance between thrust and speed by proper choice of motor rpm and propeller size. The Multiplex factory engineers were limited by the technology of the previous decade and could not really do justice to the airframe. Fortunately, there is no need to make the same compromises today.

-Flieslikeabeagle
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