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Old Jul 29, 2005, 01:34 PM
Truss-Loc Monkey
Stevens AeroModel's Avatar
Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Feb 2002
4,396 Posts
You'd be getting similar numbers to my high alt 13x8 numbers with a 12x6... which means you should be able to move on up to a 13x6.5 without an issue. In fact, that's probably how I'll set mine up at NEAT.

Feather, thanks for the Sea Level figures!

-Bill


Quote:
Originally Posted by sun.flyer
Bill,

So based on the fact that I am close to sea level (664ft. msl) I could go with an apc 12x6e and get similiar numbers as a 13x6, 13x8 at 6,000ft? Just wondering because the 12x6e was what I was going to use to start and then move up to a 13x6.5 after the batteries were broke in. But it sounds like the 13x6.5 may be to much prop with my planned setup with phx-45 when it comes to amp draw maybe. I know I am looking to get unlimited vertical from the plane and would like to do pattern/little 3d with the setup that I am trying to work out.

Thanks for the feedback Bill it has been a pleasure working with you through several threads here on rcgroups as well as the feedback I have received from your website(Regards, Hos). Not often do you find a plane manufacture taking time to help others build and fly there products like you have with so many. Much Appreciated!!

Tim
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Old Jul 29, 2005, 03:54 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Here are a couple of covering links.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=coverite

http://www.monokote.com/monoinst1.html
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Old Jul 30, 2005, 08:29 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Just finished the main color of the fuse and it turned out better than I had hoped.

Did it in 2 pieces with a seam down the middle of the turtle deck. This has allowed me to cover the whole plane with 2 rolls of Solite and some scrap red I had lying around. You need to be careful how you lay out the wings and fuse - but it can be done. If I have time I will post a layout guide for how I got all the pieces in 2 rolls.

I think doing the trim colors on the fuse will be somewhat easy. The blue is not real easy to cover the yellow because it tends to bubble, but if you work it slowly, with a cool iron, I am finding it comes out OK.

Mike
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Old Jul 30, 2005, 08:42 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Covering the Main Wing

The wing was done in 4 pieces, top color first (to blend the colors correctly as I described above) , bottom and then trim. The inside center I left uncovered - this will allow me to thread the servo wires and epoxy in the dowl rods for the wing holders in the front.

I took the blue strip and ran it last and then layed it from front to back over lapping the leading edge just down to the rib tips on the bottom.

the Right side (as you look from the rear- see pic) was covered first. I tried to do each section as you go, pulling and shrinking between the ribs. Was very disappointed at the results and nearly took it off. But got a pin and poped and sealed all bubbles and shrunk and pressed all creases and it turned out OK - but disappointing considering the tail feathers. Yet, Dark Blue is very forgiving.

Talked to some guys at the club today, and one suggested to take the blue strip with low temp and tack from rib to rib not tacking in between. Then tack the Leading Edge. Shrink with a heat gun lightly. Then tack the centers between the ribs and work back toward the ribs.

I also made a little squeege out of balsa, once all the above was done, tacked between each rib and worked it out to the ribs and the other side turned out MUCH nicer.

The stripes are in 2 pieces. the Leading Edge and then the cureved part (put on first) that covers down the tip.

Mike
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Old Jul 30, 2005, 09:27 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Covering Layout Guide

This will let you do the whole plane in a 2 color scheme, with the bottom one color and the top the other Using just 2 rolls of covering.

Measure very specifically. Remember, everything is upside down. It is best to work from the clear plastic side up when laying out the covering, and lay the part to be covered face down (side to be covered to the table). This will let you cut out the part and not have it reversed once the clear is pealed off.

Do tail feathers first, then wing and finish with fuse.

You must be left with 72" of top color once the tail feathers are covered. This will insure you have enough covering to follow plan below.

With this layout, the blue only goes to the 2 ribs that meet the fuse. You must then cover that inside section with another piece of blue - about 5.25" wide by 18" for over lay.

Once done, You have no yellow left - and just enough blue to do the trim and details.

THERE IS NO MARGIN OF ERROR
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Old Jul 31, 2005, 07:47 AM
Test your skills....fly IMAC!!
sun.flyer's Avatar
Swanton, Ohio
Joined Feb 2005
7,990 Posts
Mike plane is looking great! Thanks for the links with the covering, really like the layout guide will definately come in handy when it gets time for me to cover. Did I say that(me cover a plane) Yeah, I think I can do it. Great thread Mike for us building newbies, thanks

Tim
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Old Jul 31, 2005, 09:11 AM
Formerly of mcba fame
Matthew Allen's Avatar
Luxembourg
Joined Apr 2001
3,007 Posts
Looks great - really professional covering there.

I have a love-hate relationship with building and especially covering. I think I could learn from this build...

Matthew
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 09:31 AM
Warbird crazy!
new2rc's Avatar
United States, CA, San Mateo
Joined Sep 2004
3,738 Posts
Wow Mike, just a wonderful job on this great looking plane

Your build is an inspiration to us would be first timers . The covering layout looks fab! You cover like a pro.

Are you using a heat gun and trim iron at all?

John and Christo
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 10:34 AM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Covering Like a Pro?

Got most of the colors done last night. My power went off at 2AM so I figured it was time to go to bed

On the fuse, somewhat happy with the color over color trim, but there must be some trick to this I just do not get. On flat and smooth round surfaces over wood, perfect. But when I did the red over the turtle deck that flows up under the canopy, that was hard. Same with blue over yellow at the tail. Came out OK, but really fought the air bubbles.

My advise, talk to people who have done it. Get good info and multiply opintions. Have good tools on hand:

I use an Iron
A heat gun (but use sparingly)
100 pack of Hobbico blades - Changed them out after nearly every piece done.
A Squeegee I made from a 2"x1.5" peice of balsa. Sand and round the corners. This is a very useful tool to smooth every thing out.
Pins to pop the bubbles with: Bubbles come (I think) because iron is too hot and glue gives off gas that cannot escape.
Straight edge

I did not use a seam iron - I do not have one - but that would have been handy.

Hope to finish covering tonight and post pics.
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 10:49 AM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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Covering Will Shrink

I have found that there is almost no reason to have creases if you take your time.

In a place where you end up on a section and seem to have too much covering in between to seal down, you can srink the covering - before you seal it - and it will fit. Just make sure you hold it up off the surface and lightly heat gun it or use the iron and hold it up. it will srink to fit and then will lay down nice.

This works well but is a little more tricky in covering over covering as the top color wants to stick to the bottom color.

Also be careful when final shrinking top colors over bottom colors. I over heated a peice of red trim over yellow, and the yellow underneith shrank more than the red on top, thus at the seam I had yellow that looked "pulled" and bunched up. I fixed it by focusing heat on just the yellow.

Part of the problem was trying to use Econocote low temp as a top color (red) over Solite (yellow) - thinner and lower temp - So as red shrank, yellow shrank more

I would have been better off to have gotten a roll of red Solite too - but then would have been into 3 new rolls and would have had a pile of red left over. Econocote is what I had on hand. Worked out OK.

Solite Note: While good at covering over wood and frame sections, definately not easy to cover color over color. Econocote is much easier to go color over color, But the sacrifice is weight. If you did the whole plane in Econocote, it would weigh more. AND - I think if you were not careful, you could warp or even collapse the airframe if you over shrunk the heavier film (I think this is pointed out in the manual or on the web site or some where)

Mike
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 10:57 AM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
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One other Newbie Covering Note

When covering over wood surfaces like the deck or the battery hatch or cockpit, do not attempt to iron the covering over the whole area.

Seam and seal the edges, doing the fuse or other flat areas just like it was a main wing: tack the Leading edge (or center), pull accross from there and tack, pull a corner, then the other and so forth. Then tack in areas in between, shrinking as needed until all edges are seamed and covering is resonably tight. (see covering diagram below)

Once done you can use a heat gun to tighten it all up, and the center will shrink because it was not sealed down to the wood.

This also produces a nice look becasue if you try to seal it down to the wood, you will see the wood grain thru the covering. But only seal the edges and seams and the end result is a nice smooth finish over solid wood pieces.

Mike
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 11:06 AM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Covering a Wing

Got this from the RC Covering Guide Book. Worked real well for me. Basic idea can be used for all parts of the plane. Start Tacking the covering at the #1 point and work thru, streaching to each point as you go.
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 12:30 PM
Use the 4S Luke
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USA, TX, Euless
Joined Aug 2003
9,343 Posts
mrm1 - Great advice. I learned the same covering over sheet balsa technique you describe above. In hot sunny weather the covering will eventually wrinkle over the balsa because it is not ironed down. So I went over mine with the iron after the gun. You do see the grain a little but not so much on the thicker covering.
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 01:12 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by feathermerchant
In hot sunny weather the covering will eventually wrinkle over the balsa because it is not ironed down. So I went over mine with the iron after the gun.
Yea, I had noticed that on other planes. Good idea.
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Old Aug 01, 2005, 11:06 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
On the Home Stretch



Well, you may be familiar with the phrase "time heals al wounds". I do not know if that is true in this case, but I will tell you that 24 hrs later, the bubbles in the portions I was concerned about have really dissepated.

Everything seems to have smoothed out quite a bit.

Basicly done now. Just need to hinge everything, Glue in the trail feathers, True the main wing (have a little twist in it) and set the plane up.

Oh yea, I have to glue and paint the cowl too.

Over all, it has exceeded my expectations. The details I purchased from Sal C. were totally worth it. Made the whole project !!

Hope to get a "drie weight" on the plane in the next few days and will post the numbers. Want to wait until I get the control surfaces hinged in and the tail glued on.

Was going to die or paint the canopy, but will leave it clear because I like the way the cockpit turned out.

Mike
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