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Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:47 PM
Test your skills....fly IMAC!!
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Swanton, Ohio
Joined Feb 2005
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Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:52 PM
Test your skills....fly IMAC!!
sun.flyer's Avatar
Swanton, Ohio
Joined Feb 2005
7,990 Posts
Mike,

How has progress been coming on the cap? Have not seen any new posts lately. Have you decided on a motor yet? I was looking at northeast sailplanes website today and seen a mp jet 28/20-7 that I thought looked kind of promising. It looks like it can run lower amps but the same amount of thrust as an axi 2820/10. Price looks good to, I am not sure I like the phx 35 combo with this motor but they seem to show it as a good combination. I was also looking at going with a axi 2826/10 as this seems to be a pretty popular combo right now until the hackers(motors) start flying.

Tim
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Old Jul 26, 2005, 10:21 PM
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unbalanced prop's Avatar
Washington, PA, USA
Joined Aug 2003
1,486 Posts
Don't forget the Hyperion 3025/8T. I have one in a Funworld with just great power. It is as solid as a rock and runs very smooth. IMHO a very high quality motor that can compete with anything. Here is a link to some static numbers I recorded.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=36

Doug
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 12:33 AM
Truss-Loc Monkey
Stevens AeroModel's Avatar
Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Feb 2002
4,402 Posts
No, the problems were limited to the 25's the 35, and 45 will work just fine with your outrunner... for that matter, the 25 reprogramed works just fine.

The model is looking good!

-Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1
I also have a recently purchased Castle Creations Pheonix 45 that I purchased from Adam of DraganFly Innovations. He sold me the ESC for $65.

I asked for the latest firmware, but have no idea if he updated it before shipping. I have read in other threads somewhere (after I purchased my CC 45 ) that the CC 45's were having problems with outrunner motors.

I did not know this or may have reconsidered the ESC. Does any one know what that issue is or if it had been address in later models of this ESC? Or how to fix it if it is a problem for me.

Guess what I am asking is what computer settings on the ESC should I use?

Mike
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 01:07 AM
Got shenpa?
flieslikeabeagle's Avatar
Los Angeles
Joined May 2004
10,940 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun.flyer
I was looking at northeast sailplanes website today and seen a mp jet 28/20-7 that I thought looked kind of promising. It looks like it can run lower amps but the same amount of thrust as an axi 2820/10. Price looks good to, I am not sure I like the phx 35 combo with this motor but they seem to show it as a good combination. I was also looking at going with a axi 2826/10 as this seems to be a pretty popular combo right now until the hackers(motors) start flying.
Tim, FWIW, I bought one of those MP Jet 2820/7 + Phoenix 35 combos from NSP, and what they shipped me was a Phoenix 45 (not 35). I'm very glad they gave me the extra 10A of safety margin.

The "more thrust on the same current" statement is not enough by itself to say which motor is more efficient - you see, NSP does not quote the corresponding pitch speeds. If the MP Jet was used with a prop that had a lower pitch speed at the same current draw, then the thrust would be more even if the MP Jet was in fact less efficient than the Axi 2820/10.

On the other hand, I asked for advice about this motor a while ago, and Vintage1 pointed out that the MP Jet has a *lower* Kv than the Axi, despite having fewer turns (7 vs 10). This suggests a stronger magnetic field and/or lamination stack for the MP Jet. At the same time, the MP Jet has lower idle current than the Axi - this means better quality laminations in the MP Jet. So there is good reason to believe the MP Jet is the more efficient motor of the two.

I still haven't used my MP Jet (still building the plane), so no flight report yet. But I have read some very good reports about this motor.

-Flieslikeabeagle
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 01:13 PM
Test your skills....fly IMAC!!
sun.flyer's Avatar
Swanton, Ohio
Joined Feb 2005
7,990 Posts
flieslikeabeagle,

Thanks for the info. on the MP Jet motor, I did not know that NSP ships the 45 phx with this setup but like you said it doesn't hurt to have the extra margin of safety. How has your build been going so far? Have you ever built one of Bill's planes before? I really like the looks of the cap 40e but still nervous about building my first. I think more of my fear lies with the covering than the actual build. Any pics of your progress?

Bill, if you are monitoring this have you had any other builds with the new hacker motors as I see these are the motors you are now recommending on your website? Just curious to see if people are liking those more than the 2820/10 and 2826/10(getting more popular) axi's that were recommended before. Thanks

Tim
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 02:16 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
WOW, I go away for a few days, and my little thread (which I thought no one was following - except maybe new2rc and a few others) has picked up steam.

I wrote Stevens 2 days ago and based on my overall needs, the props I had on hand, and the batteries I have - recommended the new Hacker A30-10XL.

I am very excited to see so many now posting and trying so many different - even experimental - setups. I have toyed will all of these in my mind, but budget constraints have kept me from trying them all. Would like to see everybodies experiences.

As to the build:

Well I am ready to cover. I had been waiting on my friend to come back from his 7 week long travels to help me get starte on my first cover job. He is a "master builder" and had offered to help me get started.

He is back just this week, but in the mean time of his absence, I think I had decided to give the covering a go by myself. I hope to start this week. Tonight if I get out of church early enough.

I ran into enough money to buy a motor this week too, and was going to order one yesterday from SA, but as I only have 2 rolls of coveing (one blue and one yellow) - and were as others have said that it will take just over 1 roll of yellow, I thought I might wait on ordering the motor until I run out of covering. Then if I need covering, order it with the motor to save on shipping.

If I start the covering job tonight, I will post pics.

Mike
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 02:29 PM
Test your skills....fly IMAC!!
sun.flyer's Avatar
Swanton, Ohio
Joined Feb 2005
7,990 Posts
Mike,

Glad to hear you are still working on the plane, what prop setup are you going with on the hacker? Is this motor more comparable to the 2820/10 or the 2826/10 axi? I forget what lipo pack you settled on, I like the new polyquest pack myself and will probably go with those unless I here something conviencing other wise. Is your color scheme going to be along SalC Bretling theme? Also did you going with the HS-81 all around? Thanks and looking forward to seeing your covering job, let us newbies know how it goes.

Tim
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 03:22 PM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
I think the Hacker A30-10xl is most like the AXI 2820-10, but I am not really the one to say, Bill would be better at that one. I do know that for the money, it seems to be the deal.

$89 dollars gets you the whole deal: Prop adaptor for shaft, reverse mount to a firewall, male and female plugs, plywood and motor. This is my main motivation toward this motor.

Batteries, you are on your own. My battery experience to date has not been too good in the Lipo Dept.

I will probably swing either a 12x8/ 12x6 or 13x6.5 on the plane, depending on ground clearance, amps and flight characteristics. One field I fly at has long "short grass" for a runway, I have to use 3 wheels some times.

Mike
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 03:31 PM
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San Antonio Intl, Texas, United States
Joined Jul 2004
606 Posts
use the hacker i like hackers they are some of the best motors. and for that price you cant beat it.
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Old Jul 27, 2005, 03:35 PM
Test your skills....fly IMAC!!
sun.flyer's Avatar
Swanton, Ohio
Joined Feb 2005
7,990 Posts
I see that NSP website has the hacker a30-10xl with phx-45 esc on sale as a combo for $159.99. That's $89 for the motor and only $70 for the esc, pretty good deal. What happened with the lipo's Mike, if I am not mistaken didn't you get some from Maxamps?

tim
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Old Jul 28, 2005, 09:59 AM
Truss-Loc Monkey
Stevens AeroModel's Avatar
Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Feb 2002
4,402 Posts
Here are the numbers I got when I tested these back to back (from the .40e thread). I originally designed around the 2820-10 motor, Model motors has redesigned the 2820-10 so swinging a 12x6 is now out of the question if you have a new 2820-10 you'll be much happier with an 11x5.5E)...

Basically it would be a fair comparison to say that the 10XL hacker is a slightly hotter version of the 2826-10 and a step up in power over the original 2820-10 I designed around. The 12XL has a bit more torque then the 2826-10 which is evident when swinging a larger prop. I would prefere the 10XL with 12x6-13x6.5 at sea level for my type of flying (Pattern/Mixed 3D)

All numbers are 6000' elevation 85deg. F
All props are APC Electric
Readings by AstroFlight Super Watt Meter - (doesn't store the max readings so I had to glance at the numbers a few times and scratch them down.)
Power by Apogee 2480 3S2P (4960mAh) at top of charge.

AXI 2820-10 (Original Pre Radial Mount) 6.1oz
13x8 7500rpm 10.0v 46A 466w*** my original High Alt Setup.
12x6 8600rpm 10.3v 37A 380w*** my original Sea Level Setup.

AXI 2820-10 (NEW Shipping now from Hobby Lobby) 5.3oz
12x6 9200rpm 10.0v 48A 470w - These numbers are at 6500' ASL expect a bad situation at sea level "Can you say chernobyl? I knew you could!"
11x5.5 10300rpm 10.3v 37A 380w

**The new 2820-10 saves .8oz over the old 2820-10 but requires an 11x5.5 to keep it happy.

AXI 2826-10 6.5oz
14x10 6400rpm 9.6v 49A 470w
14x7 7200rpm 10.1v 42A 425w
13x8 7400rpm 10.0v 38A 385w
12x6 8400rpm 10.6v 30A 315w

Now for the Hacker:

A30-10XL 6.4oz

13x8 7600rpm 10.1v 42A 430w
12x6 8400rpm 10.7v 32A 345w

**The A30-10XL turns a 12x6 at 200rpm less then my original (old) 2820-10 and costs me .3oz.... where it shines (at my elevation) is with a 13x8 as it flips it at +100 rpm over the original 2820-10 and saves me 10% in Amp Draw 42A (Hacker) vs. 46A (AXI)...

A30-12XL 6.4oz

14x10 6300rpm 10.0v 43.1A 430w
14x7 7000rpm 10.5v 35.9A 373w
13x8 7200rpm 10.6v 33.3A 352w

**The A30-12XL seems to be 200 rpm less then the tested 2826 axi with each prop tested until the 14x10 prop. With the 14x10 the hacker struts it's torque and efficiency as it motivates the prop -100rpm less then the 2826 but saves you ~6A in draw pulling only 43.1A vs the AXI at 49A...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm1
I think the Hacker A30-10xl is most like the AXI 2820-10, but I am not really the one to say, Bill would be better at that one. I do know that for the money, it seems to be the deal.

$89 dollars gets you the whole deal: Prop adaptor for shaft, reverse mount to a firewall, male and female plugs, plywood and motor. This is my main motivation toward this motor.

Batteries, you are on your own. My battery experience to date has not been too good in the Lipo Dept.

I will probably swing either a 12x8/ 12x6 or 13x6.5 on the plane, depending on ground clearance, amps and flight characteristics. One field I fly at has long "short grass" for a runway, I have to use 3 wheels some times.

Mike
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Old Jul 28, 2005, 10:21 AM
Truss-Loc Monkey
Stevens AeroModel's Avatar
Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Feb 2002
4,402 Posts
I can't speak for others but I like mine! The move to Hacker comes after a two year search for a product that would match or outperform the AXI mechanically... backed by an actual distributor that's in business to support both the end user and the dealer.

So far the feedback from my customers is that the Hackers are out performing the AXI by a good margin... However, most of this feedback comes from the Stella / Groove crowd using the A20's and A30-28... The local test pilot has been wringing out the A30-16m in the Edge and it is fantastic. I'm not certain how many folks have actually pulled an AXI from their .40e in favor of a 10 or 12XL and I don't think I'd even suggest that. The AXI motors are still a good product and I wouldn't hesitate putting them in any of my ships... however, if I were shopping new I'd get the Hacker... personally I have found that Aero-Model / Hacker is offering better service, support, performance, and value to the consumer... and to be quite honest with you, I'm most excited about the feedback I have received from customers who have had to contact Aero-Model / Hacker for service... so far they have given very high marks to Aero-Model and that means more to me as a dealer.

-Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun.flyer
flieslikeabeagle,

Bill, if you are monitoring this have you had any other builds with the new hacker motors as I see these are the motors you are now recommending on your website? Just curious to see if people are liking those more than the 2820/10 and 2826/10(getting more popular) axi's that were recommended before. Thanks

Tim
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Old Jul 28, 2005, 11:23 AM
Fly a LiL' Lower Will Ya!
mrm1's Avatar
North Central Florida
Joined Sep 2004
4,811 Posts
Thanks Bill.

Got the Elevator Covered last night. Went very well - but took about 2 hrs to get like I wanted it. Most of that time was spent just getting the first piece on correctly. the other 3 pieces went on fairly fast.

My Scheme was a 2 color set up (Yellow top/Blue bottom) and then I added blue and red tips to the top. Looks very nice. And was real simple to do. The Solite film is very easy to work with. I have used MonoCote, Econocote and Hanger 9 stuff for large repairs and this was by far the easyest. I know that the main wing and Fuse will be more difficult, but should be do-able.

One note from a newbie point of view. I still do not like the solite film in the light colors. It is just too transparent. The blue is perfect, but the yellow is near transparent. SO ... I would suggest in a 2 color scheme like mine, that even though it is not standard to cover the top of the wing first, If it is yellow, cover it first and then seam the bottom Blue to the yellow and not the other way around.

As suggested in the film instructions, cover the lite colors first and then the dark colors on top.

I know this is not norm to cover the top first, but I think it would look cleaner as the blue shows thru the yellow.

Mike
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Old Jul 28, 2005, 11:59 AM
Got shenpa?
flieslikeabeagle's Avatar
Los Angeles
Joined May 2004
10,940 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun.flyer
Thanks for the info. on the MP Jet motor, I did not know that NSP ships the 45 phx with this setup but like you said it doesn't hurt to have the extra margin of safety. How has your build been going so far? Have you ever built one of Bill's planes before?
Tim
Tim, I bought that motor to use in a different plane (Northeast Sailplanes Vermont Belle 1300). I just wanted to pass on the information about the 45 A speed control, and what I learned about the MP Jet motor's efficiency.

Sadly, I've yet to build a Stevens Aero kit, though I've had my eye on the Groove for some time. I usually take weeks to build a GWS foamy, so I'm hesitant to tackle a balsa kit.

-Flieslikeabeagle
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