Not yer average Lysander - it's got an extra wing, and a turret on the back!

[tim hooper]

Gentlemen,

For your delight and derision, may I present the Westland P12 Wendover......

You know where this is going, don't you?

tim

[tim hooper]

Pauls Ugly Aircraft Shrine website really does have a lot to answer for recently. It's packed with potential subjects for the weird and quirky side of this daft hobby.

I'd noted the P12 Lizzie a bit ago, but it was left to Kiwi to supply a workable 3-view of this experimental monster.

A bit more mooching found the P12 lysander page on the Nest of Dragons site, which gave some valuable info such as the CG location;

"Prototype K6127
After a number of windtunnel tests with models the work on the prototype began. Lysander prototype K6127 lost its original rear cockpit and got a mock-up of a Frazer Nash turret.
Maiden flight: July 27, 1941.
Testflights
Testpilot Penrose reports that all was like the original Lysander expect that the rudders only became effective at higher speeds. Weird thing was that the airplane proved to be ... more stable. That testflight ended with a loop. Now, if that is not a proof of confidence by its pilot. He sure liked it.
Later tests proved the wide CG range which is common in the Delanne configuration.
During later handling trials they did the tests in three conditions.
1. CG at forward limit (45% of aerodynamic mean chord (AMC))
2. CG at normal limit (52,3% of AMC)
3. CG at aft limit (58,2% of AMC)
Conclusions:
· Rudders were ineffective below 64 km/h (40 mph).
· Little swing to left if loading at aft limit.
· Initial climb was like the original Lysander, only needing a little rudder.
· Aircraft proved easy to fly
· Rudder control became heavy at 450 km/h (280 mph). Below that speed it was rather light.
· The automatic slots in the front wing caused problems when they changed position (close to open).
· Dives were "smooth and remarkably steady".
The end of the Lysander P12
Before full tests were done, the official support was lost. The P12 was official of duty on June 13, 1944.
They first had thought that the Delanne concept could be used in other projects. Heavy bombers in special. A heavy (in weight and power) rear turret on those would be good. Petter proposed a four-engine bomber with a four gun turret to specification B.8/41. Westland thought about a Halifax modification with a turret in the rear."

So far, so good!

tim

[oldcoot88]

Uh-oh. By golly looks like anudder build thread a-comin'.

Bill(oc)

[crashsiegel]

Tim,
That is one UGLY machine!
Only a pilot or a modeler could love it!
Crash

[tim hooper]

Yesterday, wearing a heavy disguise, I bought a sheet of 2mm depron from my nearly-local model shop. This morning I made a very wobbly 24" chuck glider (with thread braced wings) just to try out the basic outline of the P12, and set the CG at 53% MAC before taking it to the field to amuse the glo-fliers.

Launched gently, the chuckie flies very nicely indeed - the glide is nice and flat. Launched too fast, and it balloons up into a stall, which seems to be the case with most chuckies that I've ever flown as a kid.

Clubmate Barney was there with his camera, and I'm sure he has plenty of embarrassing pics to post!

tim

[leccyflyer]

Wondered why you said you were cutting depron earlier .........

That's Wendover, as in "Wendover the lines, never to return".

Watching with interest

[portablevcb]

Tim! I knew you wouldn't let us down! BTW, that made a 'coffee table book' here in the states called something like, The world's weirdest aircraft. If I remember right it was even on the cover! You sure do know how to pick em.

Ok, serious question. Does this one count as a biplane without a tail or a high wing with a tail??

charlie

[temacc]

Tim,

Just read your 'Two in One' in the latest Brit mag to come 'over here.' Figured you were going to look for something stranger than a car-eating airplane...and you did!

Terry

[Steve85]

Eww, yuck. You've got to do it, Tim.

Steve

[leccyflyer]

I've been doing a little research on the origin of the Wendover and was surprised to learn that the design came about entirely by accident over Holland in 1942.

Apparently this was the one occasion when a lone Whitley on a secret night raid actually found an aircraft even slower and less agile than itself when it encountered a Lysander engaged on an even more secret drop off. As a result of an unfortunate front-to-rear collision the Whitley's load of bombs were not delivered to the secret factory engaged in the manufacture of high-sided hybrid clog/jackboots for the Wermacht and an SOE agent was never delivered to his drop off point, where he was to assassinate the famous little boy with his finger in the dyke, thereby causing widespread flooding and disruption to the local clog/jackboot industry.

Both were unfortunate occurrences, but were tempered by the survival of the Lysander pilot, the Whitley's flight engineer and their Tail-End Charlie arriving safely back at blightly, albeit being more than a little surprised when they came to disembark their strangley new aircraft.

The remaining aircrew all parachuted to safety, but were ostracised in their POW camp as the existing inhabitants took their description of the strange aircraft that they saw flying away during their descent as indicative of an attempt by the Abwehr to plant spies in their midst in order to discover the secrets of the RAF boffins back home.

So, a truly historic RAF aircraft to be modelled and I commend Mr Hooper's choice to the house

[Treetop]

At first blush, this makes the Farman look like a beauty queen, however, Tim's planes seem to grow on me over time, and when a b&w old photo becomes a nice new model, it is like a view into history. Thanks Tim. tt

[portablevcb]

I think Tim's choices aren't really as much ugly as they are 'different'. Of course, in this part of the hobby, we are all a bit 'different'

By the time Tim is done with this one it will look elegant as it travels through British skies.

Actually, I was more concerned with Tim wearing a disguise to buy depron I usually find some little kid and bribe him with a dollar bill to get any of that 'foamy' stuff. So, we have Tim wearing an overcoat and me bribing little kids. What has this hobby come to?!?!

charlie

[Large One]

Is this thread open for obscure 'Allo 'Allo references yet?

[ChrisP]

Tim

Your profile model reminded me of what Ian Easton was doing over on 'free flight' :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1&page=3&pp=15

[tim hooper]

Chris,

Thanks for the link to Ian's version. Funnily enough, the Wendovers fuselage shouldn't be too hard to model, even in 3D - it doesn't appear to taper towards the tail at all. In fact the basic longerons could well form a the basis of a rectangular box!

Many thanks to Bri for his exhaustive research. I'd just assumed that the Wendy was just the illigitimate result of a drunken encounter between a Lysander and a Lancaster in a hangar one night. So that would be a Lycaster then? Or was it a Lancsander? But looking at the fins, I can see that Bri is right about the Whitley parentage.

Charlie, I can't quite decide whether it's a tandem wing design, or does it just have a large tailplane?

Right then, I've managed to spend most of my workday pondering my options here, and this is what I've come up with;

I'll keep it small at about 40" span, with detachable wings. It would be good if the tail detached too for easier storage, but then there's the rudder and elevator linkages to contend with. Added to that, there's going to be no propwash over the rudders so a steerable tailwheel looks mandatory. There's a small amount of dihedral in the tailplane so each half of the elevator will need to be separately driven, and the linkages to the rudders look set to be fun too. Easy so far, huh?

The wings will probably plug into tubes embedded in the cabin area. The easiest way around this looks to be to pretend it's a parasol-winged model and make a cabane assembly from piano wire attached to the top longeron. The glazing can then be a simple wrapover of acetate, with holes to allow the wing dowels to enter their tubes.

I'm thinking about a Typhoon6 outrunner on 2S1P Lipos for power. This is what I use in the Waco SRE and there's plenty of power available there. Additionally that system is light in weight, and given the Wendy/Lizzies frugal wing area/phenomenal drag we'll need to save all the weight we can.

I hope to start drawing some plans later today.

tim