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Old Jun 05, 2005, 07:42 AM
New Jersey USA
Joined Jul 2004
76 Posts
P61 Black Widow electric

Hello electric scale folks,

I'm relatively (have 2 new to electrics but have been a rc flyer for over 20 years. I've always loved scale planes and have been a giant scaler for at least 10 years. Several years ago I started to research the P61 for my next scale project. I bought Don Smiths plans, and a pair of OS 120's but now with my new found interest in electrics, I'm thinking this might be a neat electric project. Any advice, suggestions (equiptment, size, ect) would be appreciated. The Smith plans are for a 99 inch wing span. I'm thinking I should go a little smaller like 60 inches.
Don
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 08:08 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
22,374 Posts
Don,

I see you're in NJ. We're having an electric meet in Easton PA next weekend and you may very well find someone there to talk to about appropriate stuff for a fast twin like that. Among others, Tom Hunt and Bob Aberle. I'll have a slower twin there myself.

http://www.lvrcs.com/content/events/electricfly.htm

We also have a thread on the Events page about it. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354376

PM or E-mail me for more info.

60" sounds like a better size and 99. I would expect to power it with about 600-800W, which would be roughly a Mega 22 sized motor on about 16-20V, perhaps with a low gear ratio maybe 3:1 or so. You will want to run the power systems independently (Y adapter off the throttle channel).

We invited a bunch of vendors to the LVRCS event next weekend, and they'll probably have show pricing.

Andy
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 09:56 AM
aka neweflyer
Vancouver, wa
Joined Feb 2000
354 Posts
big twins

That being said it is all about weight. either size is fine as long as you keep the weight down. Ivan Pettigrew up in canada does some huge twins and four engine planes up to 120". but they are down around 10 pounds at that size. check this web page for some examples of what can be done electric. http://www.geocities.com/ivansplans/ Add to that big flies better!
fwiw.
grant
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 10:19 AM
ARFs make me BARF
mrittinger's Avatar
United States, MI, Roseville
Joined Dec 2000
8,811 Posts
"Add to that big flies better!"

LOL, obviously, you haven't seen my littls birds fly! It's all in the pilot and the design my friend.
To me, bigger just means more expensive, harder to transport, and more pieces to pick up.......

A twin in 60" range would be a perfect Widow. Two geared Brushless or even Magentic Mayhems would work great, spin big props, be very efficient, and transport easily.
However, if this were to be your first electric power project, may I suggest you start with something a bit simpler to get in the learning curve? There is a lot to learn out there!
Maybe take one of the birds you have and electrify it to gain some experience.
My 2 cents.
Mark
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 10:20 AM
The Prop Rotates Around $
iflyprops's Avatar
Orlando Herndon, Florida
Joined Oct 2004
693 Posts
So Mark...working on any Widow plans....??
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 10:41 AM
ARFs make me BARF
mrittinger's Avatar
United States, MI, Roseville
Joined Dec 2000
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I did a stand off scale speed 400 Black Widow 3 years ago.
38" span, all wood. Great little bird to fly. Radio hit did it in.
Mark
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 10:52 AM
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iflyprops's Avatar
Orlando Herndon, Florida
Joined Oct 2004
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Ouch... Did you publish the plans?
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 11:00 AM
ARFs make me BARF
mrittinger's Avatar
United States, MI, Roseville
Joined Dec 2000
8,811 Posts
Yes, I have them. I didn't make an article out of it because it is not the easiest build and there is a lot of glass to mold. You can make the glass from foam and paint it though, and it'll look OK.
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 02:52 PM
New Jersey USA
Joined Jul 2004
76 Posts
Mark,
Is there an easy way for me to see those plans? I would just like to see the construction technique you used.
Don
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 03:14 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2003
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I can vouch for Marks P-61.. its a very nice model at 38" and powered by a pair of spd 400's... if your wanting to go a little larger, I can suggest Jack Bales P-61.. its around 55" WS I believe.. for sheer pleasure and a good build, you cannot go wrong with a Rittinger design. Mark's birds fly great, look good and are easy on the wallet!!
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 03:19 PM
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ShaverR6's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
Joined Sep 2004
326 Posts
Interesting. Is there any way to get these Rittinger plans?
Thanks,
Patrick
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 03:21 PM
New Jersey USA
Joined Jul 2004
76 Posts
OK Gear up, where can I find more info on Jack Bales P61 and what is a rittinger design?
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 03:43 PM
The Prop Rotates Around $
iflyprops's Avatar
Orlando Herndon, Florida
Joined Oct 2004
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I'm guessing there aren't any kits out there....I'm too lazy to scratchbuild...lol
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 06:04 PM
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Patrick, Jack Bales passed 2 yrs ago... I believe if you do a google search, or thread search here, you'll find that his club still has some plans left... Rittinger design?? look at post#6 and 8... Mark Rittinger designs some sweet ships!!
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Old Jun 05, 2005, 06:29 PM
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Brad Trent's Avatar
Canada, BC, Abbotsford
Joined Mar 1999
1,613 Posts
E-twins are great fun. I'd go with 400 size motors, brushed or BL, for the 60" version, and 600 size for the 99" model. I can vouch for Ivan's lightweight approach to these types, as I've seen all of his fly extremely well, and have flown several of them myself. I'll be building several more over the next few seasons, starting with a 2x400 powered 72" Grumman Albatross, followed later by an 80+" Beaufighter with 2x550s.

The P61 has plenty of wing area, so loading would be nice and light for a 60" model at around 64 oz., easily doable. Ivan's Mini -Cat, the 83" PBY, flies at speeds that would look very scale for a 5' P61. It uses 2 geared GWS 7.2V 400s, wired parallel, 1 25A esc, and 1 8 cell sub-C pack. Weight is 64 oz. Very inexpensive setup, with plenty of power, and 2 seasons of flying with no problems. The 7.2V 400s work very well on 3S lipos, as long as they are geared/propped for no more than 10A/motor. I get nearly 15 min. flights from an Hecell 3S1P 2000mah pack in my 48" sport model, 2x7.2V 400s, geared 3:1, 9x7 props, 7A/motor, 40 oz. flying weight.

Either size will work well, as long as the 60" is at 16 oz/sqft, or the 99" at about 24 oz/sqft, and power loading 60W/lb or better. I'll enjoy following your progress on this one.

Brad.

Just looked up the full size specs, and this would make a very nice 1/12 scale project, at 66" span, 49.6" length, and 14.67" height. Pilots, wheels, retracts, etc., should be easy to find at this size. Sweet!
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Last edited by Brad Trent; Jun 05, 2005 at 07:16 PM.
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