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Old Apr 15, 2002, 10:34 AM
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Steven9026's Avatar
Lexington, South Carolina
Joined Oct 2001
514 Posts
Flight training for aerobatics

Hello,
Does anyone have any suggestions, or can offer me some advise on the proper way to learn to fly aerobatics. I've been flying for about 8 months now, and I want to start learning to fly aerobatics. I don't have anyone that lives close to me that can teach me. I want to learn the proper way, and not start out with bad habits that I will need to correct later. I've done simple rolls and loops with my park flyer, and I have experience performing aerobatic on my flight sim, but have not wanted to try them on my plane until I learn the basics. I guess what I'm asking is, what techniques to you learn first, then second, and so on. I wanna be able to learn the same way I learned to fly, one step at a time, and I want to learn the proper steps, and get plenty of practise on each before moving on. The plane I'll be learning on is a SwitchBack with the sport wing.

Thanks,
Steven
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Old Apr 15, 2002, 01:04 PM
God is good
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Banjul
Joined Jan 2001
4,246 Posts
You've mastered about 3/4's of the basic patterns already if you can loop and roll. Many other aerobatic maneuvers are just combinations of the two maneuvers. Just add one more pattern to your repetoire and then practice, practice, practice.

Sportsman Pattern Maneuvers:

1. Take-off (upwind)
2. Straight Flight Out (upwind)
3. Half Reverse Cuban Eight
4. Straight Flight Back (downwind)
5. Stall Turn w/o Rolls (upwind)
6. Immelmann Turn (upwind)
7. Split "S"
8. Three Inside Loops (upwind)
9. One Horizontal Roll (downwind)
10. Landing (upwind)

I'm assuming you can do 1, 2, 4, 8, 9, and 10 already, so, begin with one you don't know and add it to your pattern.

VP
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Old Apr 15, 2002, 09:52 PM
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johnhlong's Avatar
Issaquah, Wa, USA
Joined Apr 2002
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Discription of Maneuvers

How about a brief description of how to fly them?

What about 3D?

Are they the same for Helicopters?

Is there a web page that describes them in detail?

John
Seattle, WA
USA
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Old Apr 15, 2002, 10:11 PM
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Paul Susbauer's Avatar
Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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Well, lets see, learning on a Switchback Sport. There s little dihedral in that wing, so certain manuevers are going to require some compensation. Inverted flight will require a lot of down elevator because of the semi symetrical wing. I would start out 3 mistakes high when learning aerobatics. This will give you plenty of time to recover. When I say 3 mistakes high, I mean you should be at about 300 feet or more.

I'd check the IMAC website, I would assume they have some info about manuevers. I don't have the address offhand, but its the International Model Aerobatics C...(insert meaning of C in here)

One thing you may want to consider is just go out to the field, and just move the sticks around. Most guys just go out there and bang the sticks in the corners and call it good.

3 D flying is different than normal aerobatics. It involves a lot of transition between flying on power (wing is basically stalled) and on the wing. (wing is flying) You will need a plane with quite a bit of power. I'd recommend the 3D wing Doug sells for the Switchback as it has a fully symetrical airfoil and no dihedral.

Helicopter aerobatics is a lot different than airplanes when flying even a basic loop. You must have your throttle and pitch curves setup properly. In a loop you usually pull back on the collective and flatten the blades out, otherwise, at the top of the loop, the heli will want to basically drill itself into the ground.

You need enough of a pitch range. If you are trying to do aerobatics on a Nexus for example, you just don't have enough pitch range to accomplish much. If you are looking into Heli's, look into something like a Century Hawk, a Hirobo Sceadu (a little hotter for learning on, but fun later) or a Rapter. I'd personally go with the Sceadu.

Basically with aerobatics of any kind, the best thing to do is practice, practice, practice. If it was up to me, I'd say go get a .40 fun fly, put an OS .46 and a flat pitched prop, and go burn up about 5 gallons of fuel. Fun fly's are exceptionally easy to fly if set on low rates. If on high rates, just dial in a lot of exponential if you have it. They land slower than a trainer, and are a heck of a lot of fun to fly. The only downside is that they are a go where you point them plane. They don't recover like a plane with dihedral will.

--Summary - Practice.

--Paul "Still rambling"
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Old Apr 15, 2002, 10:31 PM
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Issaquah, Wa, USA
Joined Apr 2002
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Discription of Maneuvers

Thanks Paul,

Alread have a helicopter, Ergo 30SS CCPM (Schweitzer). Suposted to do basic airobatics. I like it because it is simi scale and easy to fly. All I can do now is hover it in my yard.

I have flown gliders for about 20 years on and off. Even tried power about 20-25 years ago

The local field I belong to has had some problems with neighbors and is just now getting permission to reopen for gliders and electrics only.

I am looking at the switchback as a good starting point. I like the idea of two wings.

I drool over the GWS Zero , but the reviews kind of scare me off. I want this to be fun most of the time.


I started practing 4ch on the FMS sim and it only took 2 flight before I could do some touch and go's (do you have to line them up with the runway to count?)

Thanks again for the help

John
Seattle, WA
USA
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 07:24 AM
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Steven9026's Avatar
Lexington, South Carolina
Joined Oct 2001
514 Posts
Thanks Paul,
I have both wings for the Switchback. I am starting out with the sport wing. I've been flying some of the 3D models on the sim, and have got pretty good with it. I'm just wondering how much different flying the Switchbach will be, compared to the planes such as the extras, and edges that are on the sim.

Steven
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 08:24 AM
stop talking and go fly
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Pittsburgh, PA
Joined Mar 2002
189 Posts
Paul,

Recommending a glow power plane on the "E" board.... Is that legal !!! (lol)

- - -Just kidding :-)

Anyway, I am in the VERY, VERY early stages of learning to fly. Eventally I would like to move onto aerobatics, in fact, that is the main reason I started to fly in the 1st place. I maybe getting ahead of myself, but want would be a good 2nd plane for me that is capable of quailty aerobatics ???

Is case you missed my other thread, I am learning on a Sky Scooter Pro.

Thanks - - Spider.
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 08:59 AM
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Lexington, South Carolina
Joined Oct 2001
514 Posts
Spider,
Check out the Switchback that Doug is building. It's from mountain models. There are several post on here about it. It's a great plane, and it will allow you to start out with a more tame sport wing, and then change it to the 3D wing for a full 3d aerobatic plane.

Steven
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 01:01 PM
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Don Sims's Avatar
Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
Joined May 2000
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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forum...ne=&forumid=32

Is the link to R/C Groups forum that may be of help to you! Enjoy!!
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 01:09 PM
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Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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when learning some of the aerobatic manuevers, you will want to be fairly high, because recovery, depending on the plane could take a while, when you are still learning. You may dork a couple planes in the process of learning aerobatics, but if you don't push the envelope you wont get any better.

The planes on the sims aren't always the most accurate in their flight characteristics. Plus when you are flying the plane for real, there is no reset button, so you just have to be that much more careful. Plus if you built the plane (not an arf) there is an emotional attachment to it.

--Paul

PS- I know I recommended a gas fun fly, but they are just great planes. I love them.
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 01:14 PM
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Lexington, South Carolina
Joined Oct 2001
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Don,
Thanks for the link. I've been on the Ezone for a while, and I didn't even know about the aerobatic post.

Steven
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 04:20 PM
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Seattle, WA USA
Joined Jun 2000
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Hey John,

What field in Seattle is going to open for Gliders and Electrics? I only know of Marymoore and the glider field in Redmond. Is there another one in the area? Thanks.

Dave
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Old Apr 16, 2002, 06:56 PM
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Issaquah, Wa, USA
Joined Apr 2002
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Flying field in Seattle area

The field is in Hobart. "Lake Sawers Hawks" club. Just south of rt 18 south of Issaquah.

The club was flying everything there last year (Converted land fill, REALY, looks like a park now). Had some complaints from neighbors and seems to have worked things out.

They are about to do a "Test" re-opening with just gliders and electricts to see if the neighbors complain that they are too loud?????

John
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Old Apr 17, 2002, 10:42 AM
an earth bound misfit, I
Basketcase's Avatar
St. Pete, Florida
Joined Sep 2001
9,429 Posts
Here's another 2 cents on a couple of items.

I have a Switchback Sport and it is a beautiful flier. It's capable of far more than I am. But as Paul mentioned, I am emotionally attached to it and would be heartbroken if I crashed it.

The thing Paul said about the .40 fun fly was a good point too. There is a reasonable electric alternative in the CrazyMax. I use one of these to practice aerobatics on and it is just as capable as the SB but with no attachment and no fear of crashing at all. I have crashed it 'real good' 4 times now and all it takes is a dab of ProBond and it's ready to go again. Perfect plane for getting as "crazy" as you can.

Here's a thread with some aerobatic instruction sites listed:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...threadid=27225

The best FMS plane I've found so far to come close to Switchback flight is the GPSP glow powered trainer on Shinichiro's site. It is a little overpowered but that can be turned down in the .par file.

http://kimagure-hikoki.hoops.ne.jp/F...ger_index.html

BC
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Old Apr 17, 2002, 11:01 AM
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Lexington, South Carolina
Joined Oct 2001
514 Posts
Basketcase,
I know what you mean about being attached to the plane. I put a lot more time in covering , than I thought. I decided to do a three color scheme , with a lot of striping too. I don't wanna stuff this plane using it as a trainer. I was thinking about building a Tiny to use as a trainer. I'll take a look at the Crazy max too. Thanks for the link to the sim planes, I'll fly the one that you recomended tonight, and use it as my sim trainer plane. You mentioned a way to tame the power, how do you do that to the sim planes? There are a few I would like to increase the power.

Thanks,
Steven
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