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Old May 20, 2005, 01:44 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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Build Log
SpeedWing 400 -- How Fast will it go?

Any of you Speed seakers tried pushing this one to its limits yet.?

I think I just might have a go at it. I have always liked my Mini Speed Wing 250 and this one should have a little better wing loading and be a little easier to see due to increased mass, a little over 2 Sq .Ft as opposed to 1.16 Sq.Ft..
I really do not care much how expensive it is just want the most power/ highest RPMs for somewhere around an 6X6 prop.

Some charts suggest that a Mega 16/15/3 on 8 cell will turn a 5X5 , 19,000 @ 19 amps. A good 3S LiPoly should be a little higher voltage and a 6" prop will load the motor a little more.
Is a Astro 20 any better? Surely some one has broken a hundred with a similiar setup.


Speed Wing .Net

Build has started , Mega 16/15/3 on order.

Weights:
Two wing halfs and center keel joined: 89 grams / 3.14 oz.
Added 2 ea. 16" and 1ea. 10" 4 mm CF tubes top spars 108 gr. / 3.8 oz.
Added CF strips to bottom 112.5 gr. / 3.97 oz.
Added: 1/8" X 1/4 " spruce to trailing edges & 1' nylon straping tape to leading edges 126.9 gr. / 4.48 oz .
4" X 5" area on bottom glassed with medium weight Fibergalss cloth and 30 min. epoxy. Total wt. 134.1 gr. / 4.73 oZ.
Is it stiff yet,you bet it is.

Well I am still waiting on my Mega 16/15/3 so I decided to try a Mega 16/7/6.

AUW with CC Phoenix 45 and 2 - 3S 1320 (2640)Thunder Power ProLites in parallel 20 oz. or right at 10 oz. sq.ft. wing loading. APC 4.7X4.2 400m Speed prop at 26,000 / 20Amps..
First flight:
8 min.flight 1/2 to full throttle 1,669mAh required to recharge batteries so average amp. draw was 12.5 A.

Second Flight:
5 minute flight WOT / 1596 mAh to recharge / average inflight load 19 Amps. or better than 200 watts from a 16/7/6.

Is it fast? It sure looks fast and the sound it makes is errie.

According to on line calculator here:
http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp
26,050 / 22 amps. 104.8 mph / 29.3 static thrust / 86.9% efficency

However a 4.5X4.1 should be only 0.7 mph slower and a tad more efficent.

Update: Now running APC 4.75X4.75 trimmed to 4.4 dia. better than 26,ooo static 22 amps. and inflight must be ??????.
Charles
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Old May 20, 2005, 10:58 PM
Striving to Rip the Bring
raptor22's Avatar
San Diego, socal, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, the Orion arm, Milky way, Universe
Joined Apr 2003
6,320 Posts
You should ahve no issue breaking 100 with that wing and a /3 or an 020.

If you want to go REALLY fast, get one of the kontronic fun-480 or 400 setups. But be prepared to pay dearly for it; about $150 for the motor.

Some of the FAI guys are pushing like 600+ watts through the fun-480's in bursts.

--Alex
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Old May 22, 2005, 12:56 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor22
You should ahve no issue breaking 100 with that wing and a /3 or an 020.

If you want to go REALLY fast, get one of the kontronic fun-480 or 400 setups. But be prepared to pay dearly for it; about $150 for the motor.

Some of the FAI guys are pushing like 600+ watts through the fun-480's in bursts.

--Alex
Thanks Raptor ,I checked around a little and could not find any real HP specf.for the Kontronic motors. I sure which motor data charts included prop name ,style, dia. pitch and RPMs.


Charles
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Old May 22, 2005, 08:43 PM
Striving to Rip the Bring
raptor22's Avatar
San Diego, socal, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, the Orion arm, Milky way, Universe
Joined Apr 2003
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That's cause there aren't really any. most of the guys who use them are in hotliner type planes that surge enormous amounts of power for short amounts of time.

I can only say they are considerably higher performance than mega or any other "typical" wing motor company. They will take more power with MUCH higher effeciencies for their weight. The kontronic site a little stuff on it.

Best bet with initial prop sizing would be to pick a prop that would be used by a mega of equivelent KV.

--Alex
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Old May 23, 2005, 08:30 AM
Acer's Avatar
Loveland, Colorado
Joined Mar 2000
1,997 Posts
You can also just use a Mega 16/15/3 and a 3s or even 4s LiPoly. The Mega 16/15/3 is good for 30A sustained amp draw, but you can push it to 40A in bursts. I normally use only a 9-cell NiMH battery pulling 18A and swinging an APC 4.75x4.75 prop. This setup is in the 100-110 m.p.h. range, but it is only using about half the power that the motor can make.

I'm going to be building a (what I hope to be) a super fast SpeedWing 400 very soon. I'm using a 4s 2450mah Tanic LiPoly pack an will prop it to pull about 35A static. The old 9-cell NiMH setup was plenty fast for me, so this should be a screamer. This will be a pretty light weight setup of about 18-19 oz. so, even though it will be extremely fast, you can throttle down and enjoy the good slow flight charicteristics of the SpeedWing 400.

The Planform and size of the SpeedWing 400 is quite a bit smaller than the 36" speed 400 wings out there that people are making in to speed demons, so I expect I can surpass the speeds reached with these other wings, only a matter of setup.

-- Acer
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Old May 23, 2005, 02:43 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer

The Planform and size of the SpeedWing 400 is quite a bit smaller than the 36" speed 400 wings out there that people are making in to speed demons, so I expect I can surpass the speeds reached with these other wings, only a matter of setup.

-- Acer
Should be interesting. My MSW 250 has reached the point where I can barely keep up with it. I am hoping that the 400 being about twice as large in total mass(wing area) will be much easier to keep orientated. The wing loading should l not be as bad either even if the 400 comes in around 18 oz. it shouldl handle the weigh better. Ordered mine this morning so the project is under way,barely.Well I have CF Tubes,Rods and such along with ESCs and LiPolys.

Charles
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Old May 29, 2005, 07:13 PM
jollyroger
Central Lake, Mi.
Joined Nov 2002
1,025 Posts
Speed Wing 400

I am in the process of installing a Mega 16/15/4 in mine. Trying to figure out what size prop I need . I want to run the motor between 20 and 25 amps static, maybe a little more, but don't want to push it. I'm using a CC Phoenix 35 ESC and Berg 5 Rxcr. I'm not sure but I should probably use the TP3S 2100 Lipo for batts, but I'm going to try the GP 1100 9 cell and see what happens.I am prepared to add more cells to the packs if needed. Balance is also a problem when using the TP Lipos but maybe I can get through it.
Anybody got any suggestions for a prop for this motor...I've read a 6X5.5 is good. Cheers and good luck with yours. John Z.
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Old May 29, 2005, 10:17 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Z
I am in the process of installing a Mega 16/15/4 in mine. Trying to figure out what size prop I need . I want to run the motor between 20 and 25 amps static, maybe a little more, but don't want to push it. I'm using a CC Phoenix 35 ESC and Berg 5 Rxcr. I'm not sure but I should probably use the TP3S 2100 Lipo for batts, but I'm going to try the GP 1100 9 cell and see what happens.I am prepared to add more cells to the packs if needed. Balance is also a problem when using the TP Lipos but maybe I can get through it.
Anybody got any suggestions for a prop for this motor...I've read a 6X5.5 is good. Cheers and good luck with yours. John Z.
Chart here.


Found this at http://www.megamotorusa.com/Brushles...-15-3.htm?id=2
16/15/3
CELLS PROP RPM Amps CONTROLLER
7 0X0 26500 1.7 TMM18+3PH
7 5 X 2 21500 11 "
7 6 X 4 19100 23 Phoenix 25
8 0X0 30500 1.89
8 5 X 2 24000 12.5 TMM18+3ph
8 6 X 5 19000 29 Phoenix 35
Pro Jeti - 8 cell 4/5AUP 1700, 5.2X5.2 Graupner Cam Prop Direct Drive 80 + MPH Phoenix 25
Accord 10 cells 3.1:1, 11X7 APC-E prop Phoenix 35 ESC
EDF (Electric Ducted Fan) 8 to 10 cells replace Speed 400 or Speed 480
16 Cells Maximum - 55,000 RPM Maximum


ACn 16 series motors out perform all speed 400 size motors.
Same physical dimensions of speed 400 motors.
Shaft 1/8" Diameter = 3.175mm often called 3.2mm


Charles
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Old Jun 03, 2005, 09:09 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Well I am still waiting on my Mega 16/15/3 so I decided to try a Mega 16/7/6.

AUW with CC Phoenix 45 and 2 - 3S 1320 (2640)Thunder Power ProLites in parallel 20 oz. or right at 10 oz. sq.ft. wing loading. APC 4.7X4.2 400m Speed prop at 26,000 / 20Amps..

8 min.flight 1/2 to full throttle 1669mAh required to recharge batteries so average amp. draw was 12.5 A. Looks like it could stand a little more prop.. A another trim flight and then a 2 minute WOT ,chop and land ,recharge to check max. amps., in flight.

Charles
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Old Jun 04, 2005, 12:22 AM
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You can always go with a Neu motor.... Might be a little too fast though!
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Old Jun 04, 2005, 12:47 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-sailpilot86
You can always go with a Neu motor.... Might be a little too fast though!

Anything is possible , I guess but they do not appear to have that large of a following. I visited their website but did not see any prices listed.



Charles
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Old Jun 04, 2005, 01:24 AM
24 yrs. of Aircraft flying
epoweredrc's Avatar
United States, GA, Rockmart
Joined Oct 2004
5,824 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-sailpilot86
You can always go with a Neu motor.... Might be a little too fast though!
I normally would say You can never go to fast,But after watching that 8 minute flight today I'm not sure,it was moving pretty good.but allot of trees around to.have to see how fast it goes tho the air at the club Field.But I don't think it will have any problems keeping up with most of the Glow powered planes.
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Old Jun 04, 2005, 04:07 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acer
You can also just use a Mega 16/15/3 and a 3s or even 4s LiPoly. The Mega 16/15/3 is good for 30A sustained amp draw, but you can push it to 40A in bursts. I normally use only a 9-cell NiMH battery pulling 18A and swinging an APC 4.75x4.75 prop. This setup is in the 100-110 m.p.h. range, but it is only using about half the power that the motor can make.

I'm going to be building a (what I hope to be) a super fast SpeedWing 400 very soon. I'm using a 4s 2450mah Tanic LiPoly pack an will prop it to pull about 35A static. The old 9-cell NiMH setup was plenty fast for me, so this should be a screamer. This will be a pretty light weight setup of about 18-19 oz. so, even though it will be extremely fast, you can throttle down and enjoy the good slow flight charicteristics of the SpeedWing 400.

The Planform and size of the SpeedWing 400 is quite a bit smaller than the 36" speed 400 wings out there that people are making in to speed demons, so I expect I can surpass the speeds reached with these other wings, only a matter of setup.

-- Acer
Acer ,I am really looking forward to you completing this build. I was very careful to avoid adding any unnecessary weight while building strong enough not to vaborize in midair. Even with 2P 3S ProLites at 6.5 oz. counting y adapter and the lighter 16/7/6 motor(about 1 oz. less than 16/15/3) mine is still 20 oz. The weigh does not seem to be a problem but I will need a few more flights to get ialded in and see how it handles at lower speeds. At 1/2 thru WOT it flys like it is on rails. Turning a APC 4.7X4.2 at approximately 26K. My flying field (a neighbors hay field) is around 600 feet from my back yard and my wife told me it sounded like I was flying in my backyard.She couldn't believe how fast the sound went from the front to the back.


Charles
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Old Jun 04, 2005, 04:25 PM
jollyroger
Central Lake, Mi.
Joined Nov 2002
1,025 Posts
Speedwing with Mega motor

Well I flew mine yesterday........... Using a 10 cell GP 1100. Hehehehe very fast even at half throttle .....well I've got to add a strap to the battery tray which is cut into the bottom of the wing as the battery pack has a tendency to fly out.......I suppose it's from flying the wing near warp speed without inertial dampening. That was yesterday. I added the velcro strap to the tray and now will test it tomorrrow.
I would like to use a 3S Lipo but found the 3S2100 TP to be too light for proper balance. I guess I'll have to try parallel both packs to get the wing to balance.
Otherwise the wing is plenty fast for me... much faster than my friend's EleBee with a 1615/5.
Acer , have you got any other suggestions for a Lipo pack for my beast?
all in all very pleased with the Speedwings, and that includes the "250".
I find myself flying them more than any of my other planes.
Cheerio John Z.
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Old Jun 04, 2005, 06:05 PM
Striving to Rip the Bring
raptor22's Avatar
San Diego, socal, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, the Orion arm, Milky way, Universe
Joined Apr 2003
6,320 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer
Anything is possible , I guess but they do not appear to have that large of a following. I visited their website but did not see any prices listed.



Charles
actually, they have quite a large following, but not by the thrifty wingers (like my new word? I think "wingers" is cool ).

They are know to be very good in the HP forum. very, very good. But they are all handmade, so they aren't so cheap or nearly as common.

A "mega"-sized neu (generally used in micro-helis) runs $95 where I work and they sell out in a couple of days. They have considerably more powa and effeciency than a mega.

--Alex
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