New Product Thunder Power TP-205 smart balancer

[Charlie Wang]

Hello to all,
I spent two and a half years to build a balancer that would display battery balance condition, balance battery pack, provide overcharge warning or shut-off and when use with our own charger, disallow charging if wrong cell count has been selected (the mother of fire)

Today,I sent out some balancers for a few pilots for testing
Hope one of them would help me post a picture after they receive the balancer

One interesting question people posted to me:
Why use balancer if Thunder Power/Charlie believe that the new Pro Lite cell could stay in balance (I will answer this question in the next few post, or may be someone will answer before me)

Once you plug your battery to the balancer (takes 4 seconds)The balancer read battery balance status and display in three level of balance conditions:
1)Below 0.03V imbalance
2)0.03V to <0.2V imbalance
3)0.2V or higher imbalance

When you charge a battery pack to 4.1V, the balancer would become active if imbalance is higher than 0.005V (leds flashes when cell bleeding/balancing)

So, if the balancer is inactive during charging(no flashing leds),your battery balance is within 0.005V(hope we will see this when charging Pro Lite batteries)

Battery that are out of balance can not escape from the eyes of TP balancer

Charlie (R & D, Thunder Power Batteries)
www.thunderpower-batteries.com (a picture on left hand corner)

[hydrogin]

Hi Charlie,

I think I understand how the TP balancer works except under one condition. Assume a worst case scenario where the battery is being charged by a non-TP charger (like an Orbit) thru the TP balancer, and a cell imbalance occurs which cannot be corrected. Will the TP balancer cause the charger's output to see an open circuit so that the charger will stop charging?

Thanks for providing us with information so we can make an informed choice.


Lance

[Charlie Wang]

Originally Posted by hydrogin

Hi Charlie,

I think I understand how the TP balancer works except under one condition. Assume a worst case scenario where the battery is being charged by a non-TP charger (like an Orbit) thru the TP balancer, and a cell imbalance occurs which cannot be corrected. Will the TP balancer cause the charger's output to see an open circuit so that the charger will stop charging?

Thanks for providing us with information so we can make an informed choice.


Lance

Hi Lance,
The balancer is connected directly to the battery balancing connector (not through the charger first)
If any cell voltage goes above 4.3V during charging, audio warning alerts and leds flashes,

The balancer could not shut-off Orbit charger, on the other hand, when a battery is connected to the balancer,it display battery imbalance condition

You must first perform condition/balance charge if imbalance is higher than 0.03V, monitor this procedure until the problem is fix or battery may require repair

Overcharge any cell to 4.3V would activate audio alerts and LEDs flashes, you must manualy disconnect the charger (with TP1010 charger and all future TP chargers, overcharging would terminate charging)

Some specifications:
Balance to +/- 0.005V during charging

Auto self-balance (without charging)
Balance to +/- 0.005V by connect battery to balancer (cell voltage is 4.1V/cell or higher)
Balance to +/- 0.015V by connect battery to balancer (if cell voltage is lower than 4.1V/cell)

Regards,
Charlie

[Tanner Hall]

Hi Charlie,

Do you know approximately when the 10S balancer will be available?

thx.

[Charlie Wang]

Originally Posted by Tanner Hall

Hi Charlie,

Do you know approximately when the 10S balancer will be available?

thx.

Hi Tanner,
We like to take a week or two to analyse whatever feedback we get from TP205,
Then, it may take another 3 to 4 weeks for the TP210 to hit the market

For those who own TP4000-6S2P, TP8S2P, TP10S2p
Please wait for the TP210 balancer, the TP205 is good for 2 to 5 cells pack only.

Regards,
Charlie

[unbalanced prop]

Originally Posted by Tanner Hall

Hi Charlie,

Do you know approximately when the 10S balancer will be available?

How about the price and what vendors will have them first??

Doug

[Charlie Wang]

Originally Posted by unbalanced prop

How about the price and what vendors will have them first??

Doug

We would support all our distributors and dealers, released in the order that come in (sometime, we deliver partial to them so that everyone get some product)

Price for 2 to 5 cells moderl: $59.95
Price for 2 to 10 cells model: $79.95

Regards,
Charlie

[everydayflyer]

Tunder Power TP-205 Balancer TP-425 Charger

Just received an hour or so ago so this will be just a short review.
I made an adapter to go from TP-205 to my PQ taps connector as I have this connector on many LiPoly batteries. During the time I was takng photos and trying to get the shot with the Balancers's LEDs on I balanced three batteries. They were all very close to being balanced as I have been using a different manufatures balancers form several months.TP-205 Balancer indicated inbalance of between 0.03 and 0.2v for one cell one one battery and 2 cells on the other two. Using the TP 425 charger set at 0.5A it took less than 10 minutes to completed balance each pack and the resting(open) voltage for all three packs was 12.61 volts. Note that these packs were already charged to 12.48 volt and this was really just a top off to 12.61.
It appears that this balancer is faster than my other one(s) more testing will follow to see if this is indeed the case.
The instruction sheet is 8 1/2 X 11 and includes a wiring diagram for DIY types adapter wiring (excellent idea ).The LEDs provide all the imformation one should need as to the condition (balance wise) of the cells.
Sorry the photo is not of the best quality but catching the LEDs on was wearing me out as I was in a strain.

Any question?

Thanks for all of your hard work Charlie it looks like a winner to me.
Added:

Photo of Balancer shows Yellow status LED on and Red LEDs for cell # 2 & 3 on which indicates an inbalnce of less than 0.03 V.. Charger LEDs indicate charging 3S at 0.5A.
Addational explanation: When the battery reaches full charged contion (one cell at 4.2V and all others within 0.01v the Yellow Status LED cycles off and on approximately every 30 seconds). The 2 Red LEDs which are on in the photo indicate that the balancer is still trying to achieve a more perfect balance. When a perfect (+ /- 0.005V balance is achieved the Red LEDS will not be active( cycled on).

Update:
Four packs toped off and six packs charged,yes it was a beautiful day for flying here.

Finding sofar Balancer used with TP 425 charger set at approximately 1C rate results in a charged and balanced pack in approximately 70 minutes with an open voltage of 12.61 for a 3S pack.
When used with Apachee 2500 same results are achieved.

When used with AF 109 at 1C rate open cell voltage is 12.51.Takes approximately 90 minutes to reach charge Done and the last 20 minutes really does not add any volts or capacity to speak of.
Same results with Triton ,time maybe a little less than 90 minutes but again once charger cuts back to 0.1A charge rate you might as well end the charge.
These finding based on limited useage and are of course subject to change. The TP Balancer does not appear to add a significant length of time to the charge cycle. Balancing is only taking place above 4.1 volts per cell and at that stage the cell(s) are more than 80% charged and the charger normaly has reduced the charge rate at this stage.Also note that the 12.51 open voltage is not due to ueing the TP Balancer. This is the normal volts that I have seen in the past with these chargers and batteries.


Note: An ending charge which result in an open voltage of 12.51 for a 3S LiPoly is not a bad thing. There is approximately 3% difference in capacity between 12.48 volts and 12.60 volts. This based on my testing and the testing of others. Atleast one professional battery consultant/ tester and Electric RC flyer feels that charging past 4.16 volts(12.48 3S) is less than 5% difference and only reduces the batteries life cycles.

Added TP205 Manual as attachment in PDF Formate.

5-17-05 Added a enlarged copy of the wiring diagram for a 3S battery.
I added the Cell numbers to match the LEDs and I alos numbered the leads 1-6 top to bottm to make it easier to explain wiring adaptors for othe batteries.

TP-205 to PolyQuest 3S :

Orange goes to Red On PQ Taps connector.
Blue goes to first Black on PQ Taps connector.(THe Blk next to the Red)
White goes to second Black on PQ Taps connector.
Black goes to fourthBlack on PQ taps connector(3rd. Black is not used)

See post #62 here for photos and diagrams for othe manufactures LiPoly batteries>
Note
My lead numbers 1-6 are in reverse order to Thunder Powers. I was not made aware of this until after I had numbered and posted this drawing.


Connectors available here:
http://parts.rctoys.com/rc-toys-hobb...20Accessories/

Charles

[GoRgOyL]

Hi there,

I am very interested in this balancer. I am also using a TP 425 charger and has worked flawlessly. Looking at the photo, it looks like it has 4 wires coming out of the 2 to 3 cell port, is that black wire a common ground and the other three wires go to the positive terminal on each tap of each cell? I'd like to know 'coz I'm already planning how to wire the terminals to connect to individual (+ & -) taps of my packs.

Thanks alot.

PS ~ I like the form factor of these gadgets from TP, buttons are functional, the wire leads could be thicker, but it can be used as is, only complaint is how the LED's are mounted, it's so deep in the case you won't be able to tell what setting it's at not unless your looking directly over it.

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by GoRgOyL

Hi there,

I am very interested in this balancer. I am also using a TP 425 charger and has worked flawlessly. Looking at the photo, it looks like it has 4 wires coming out of the 2 to 3 cell port, is that black wire a common ground and the other three wires go to the positive terminal on each tap of each cell? I'd like to know 'coz I'm already planning how to wire the terminals to connect to individual (+ & -) taps of my packs.

Thanks alot.

PS ~ I like the form factor of these gadgets from TP, buttons are functional, the wire leads could be thicker, but it can be used as is, only complaint is how the LED's are mounted, it's so deep in the case you won't be able to tell what setting it's at not unless your looking directly over it.

There is a four lead connection for 2-3 cel LiPols and a 6 lead one for 4-5 cell LiPos. There is also a 3 laed connection on the other end (data port) to connect to TP's smart charger when it becomes available.
The wiring is the same as for PolyQuest and Apogee LiPoly batteries.
My scanned image does not the the diaram clearly but any DIY type who can read a wiring diagram should have no problems.
TP balancer connector to PQ connector for a 3S battery:
Orange to Red
Blue to first Black
White to second Black
Black to fourth Black.(Note- PQ connector does not use third Black on a 3S)

Added: Sometimes a photo helps an assembled 3S pack of mine with PQ connector and pin out descriped in post.

Yes the LEDs are deeply recessed but they are also well protected and bright.The Balancer also uses chirps similiar to the Charger.
I made a better set of leads from the charger to LiPoly using 20ga. super flex wire. The charger and Balancer are so light that unless the wire is super flexiable they move the charger around. I put velcor on mine so they caan be joined / seperated easily
Charles

[GoRgOyL]

Originally Posted by everydayflyer

There is a four lead connection for 2-3 cel LiPols and a 6 lead one for 4-5 cell LiPos. There is also a 3 laed connection on the other end (data port) to connect to TP's smart charger when it becomes available.
The wiring is the same as for PolyQuest and Apogee LiPoly batteries.
My scanned image does not the the diaram clearly but any DIY type who can read a wiring diagram should have no problems.
TP balancer connector to PQ connector for a 3S battery:
Orange to Red
Blue to first Black
White to second Black
Black to fourth Black.(Note- PQ connector does not use third Black on a 3S)

Yes the LEDs are deeply recessed but they are also well protected and bright.The Balancer also uses chirps similiar to the Charger.
I made a better set of leads from the charger to LiPoly using 20ga. super flex wire. The charger and Balancer are so light that unless the wire is super flexiable they move the charger around. I put velcor on mine so they caan be joined / seperated easily
Charles

I think I got you confused with my question, the wiring on the photo is straightforward, no problem with that. My problem stems from the fact that the taps on my battery packs (Tanic) are exclusively connected to each cell, hence, having a 6 pin terminal on a 3s.

What I would like to know is how the 4 terminal tap on a PQ/ apogee/ tp pack connect to the 6 terminals of the 3s lipos?

Knowing this, I could create wiring to adopt the 6pin terminal of my Tanic packs to the 4pin terminal of the TP balancer.

Thanks, hope it's clearer this time.

Rod

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by GoRgOyL

I think I got you confused with my question, the wiring on the photo is straightforward, no problem with that. My problem stems from the fact that the taps on my battery packs (Tanic) are exclusively connected to each cell, hence, having a 6 pin terminal on a 3s.

What I would like to know is how the 4 terminal tap on a PQ/ apogee/ tp pack connect to the 6 terminals of the 3s lipos?

Knowing this, I could create wiring to adopt the 6pin terminal of my Tanic packs to the 4pin terminal of the TP balancer.

Thanks, hope it's clearer this time.

Rod

Link to photo of PQ to JST connectors.

For Tanic taps. Determine which taps red / positive lead is same as battery positive power lead this goes to orange on TP balancer which I will call pin # 1.
The Blk. neg. lead from that tap(JST) connects to the Red fom the center tap connector (JST)and this joined pair connects to pin #2 (Blue) of balancer.
The Blk(neg) from the center JST connects to the remaing Red (JST) and this joined pair connects to pin # 3 (white ) of TP balancer .The remaing Blk(negative) JST wire connects to Blk . on balancer which is also Blk.
As usual ,if in dout check with a meter three times first.If you are absolutely sure you are right only check twice with meter. If you do not understand wait until you do or seek more experienced help.

Left to right cell 1 to cell 3

#1 + / #2 -+ / # 3 -+ /#4 -

Note: That that it really matters but the TP Balancers LEDS which indicate the cells numbers are backward. The cell with the positive(red) power lead is indicated as #3 on a 3S pack.l

Charles

[GoRgOyL]

Ok, got it. Sorry I didn't bother doing a search on it, got too excited

Rod

[Draganfly]

Charlie, can you post the User's Guide in .pdf format, either here or on your site? It is very informative and answers most questions customers will be asking.

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by Charlie Wang

snip....

One interesting question people posted to me:
Why use balancer if Thunder Power/Charlie believe that the new Pro Lite cell could stay in balance (I will answer this question in the next few post, or may be someone will answer before me)

snip..

Charlie (R & D, Thunder Power Batteries)
www.thunderpower-batteries.com (a picture on left hand corner)

Charlie, could you please explain in detail the answer to this question? I have not been following the Thunder Power threads as closely as I did when Lipos were first introduced, but if my memory serves me correctly, I believe that you (Thunder Power) had stated from the beginning that Thunder Power packs would never require balancing.
i.e.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=10

I have stopped using Lipos and have gone back to Nimh cells as I am waiting until all the issues have been resolved before I invest in Lipo packs again.

John

[bob00]

Hi Charlie,

The balancer looks like an excellent idea - I have a number of 5S4P and 5S3P Ion-X packs which don't have taps.

Can these be sent back to Thunder Power to have taps fitted?

If yes, what's the cost of having this done and the expected turn-around time?

Thanks,
- Rob

[everydayflyer]

As someone who has Beta tested ProLites for the past 4 1/2 months I can say that they should not require balancing if not abused. I have one with over 300 flights on it an it is still in balance. I checked another ProLite (fairly new)today with this TP 205 Balancer and it was less than 0.03V out of balance. This balancer checks to within 0.005 volts of balance.

Many LIPoly users have demanded balancers and Taps. TP is supplying what the customers have said they want. I have been using a differen balancer for several months while waiting on this one to be available for testing.
I used LiPolys for approximately 9 months before I started adding taps and connectors and was very suprised when I gained approximately 10% of useable capacity on many of my older packs which had 75 to 100 plus flights on them.



Charles

[Charlie Wang]

Originally Posted by JohnM

Charlie, could you please explain in detail the answer to this question? I have not been following the Thunder Power threads as closely as I did when Lipos were first introduced, but if my memory serves me correctly, I believe that you (Thunder Power) had stated from the beginning that Thunder Power packs would never require balancing.
i.e.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=10

I have stopped using Lipos and have gone back to Nimh cells as I am waiting until all the issues have been resolved before I invest in Lipo packs again.

John

1)The TP-205 balancer display balance condition of battery pack, we will soon to find out how ProLite compare to the rest of the world
2)TP-205, TP210 balancer are safety products that could be use in many application, not limited to RC or TP batteries.
3)Repair/condition/balance slightly abused Li-poly pack(not limited to TP's products)

4)Added safety: Monitor battery condition and report to charger
4A)Report actual cell count to charger
4B)Report overvoltage cell to charger
4C)Report imbalance condition to charger
4D)Report full and balanced charge
4E)Report detail of battery conditions and display on Charger (future charger)

Regards,
Charlie
Zdragon, when we finalise the manual, I will e-mail to you to post here

[Charlie Wang]

Plug battery balancing connector to balancer, wait 3 to 4 seconds for LEDs to display:

1)Status yellow light "ON", red LEDs "ON" for 5 seconds
Battery pack is better than 0.03V imbalance
Ready for normal charging, at 4.1V balancer would balance the pack if imbalance is higher than 0.005V

2)Status yellow light "off", red LEDs "flashing" for 5 seconds
Battery pack is 0.03V to <0.2V imbalance which require condition/balancing
*Reduce charge rate to 500mAh for 800mAh and larger pack, monitor balancing LEDs until flashing stop,
You may recheck the battery condition and charge at normal rate if imbalance improved to status 1 (better than 0.03V)

3)Status yellow light "OFF". red LEDs "flashing" for 60 seconds
Battery pack is in trouble, Please investigate the problem or make last attemp to condition/balance charge at 300mAh
If charger can charge the pack, please monitor closely, balancer will beeps 10 times and recheck every minute (if imbalance remains higher than 0.2V,you will hear the beeps again every minute)

Hope you would never see status (3)

Regards,
Charlie

Rob, send me a PM

[Charlie Wang]

Plug battery balancing connector to balancer, wait 3 to 4 seconds for LEDs to display:

AUTO SELF BALANCE - IF YOU DO NOT CHARGE BATTERY AFTER BATTERY IS CONNECTED TO BALANCER

1)If the pack voltage is higher than 4.1V/cell
Self balance begins if imbalance is higher than 0.005V
Balance to +/- 0.005V

2)If the battery voltage is lower than 4.1V/cell
Self balance begins if imbalance is higher than 0.03V
Balance to +/- 0.015V

Regards,
Charger

[Charlie Wang]

Full balance charge condition refers to ,one cell charge to 4.2V and all others must be higher than 4.19V

The TP205 and TP210 balancer will double beeps 6 times and repeat this alert every 30 seconds, yellow status LED turn "on" at the time


The Astro 109 charger, at phase 3 may activited this alerts if pulse voltage course the high cell voltage rise to 4.2V
If the charger show the correct cell count, you can continue to charge the battery till charge is done.

Regards,
Charlie

[Charlie Wang]

Overcharge alerts and shut-off
If any cell in the pack is charged to 4.3V, audio alerts will be activited and LEDs flashing, you must turn off the charger and investigate the problem

If the balancer is connected to data port of new generation TP charger, this will trigger to terminate charging

Cell count verification and safety override for Thunder Power safe smart charger:

TP new safety smart charger verify cell count with the balancer before proceed to charging
If you select the wrong cell count, charging is not allow(I call this mistake mother of fire)

Regards,
Charlie

[everydayflyer]

Tp-205 User's Guide in PDF formate here.


Charles

[gadzby]

Thanks Charlie & Charles!

The manual answers most of my questions. Looks like a very useful new product.

A few more question came up afterwards related to charger/balancer operation in several modes:

1) In the auto battery pack checking and auto self balancing modes, it looks like no connection to a charger is necessary (balancer derives power from the battery itself thru the 4 or 6-pin balancer connector). Is my understanding correct?

2) Under what conditions does the balancer enter auto self balancing mode? It's finished when the LED's stop blinking?

Grant

[gadzby]

Originally Posted by Charlie Wang

Plug battery balancing connector to balancer, wait 3 to 4 seconds for LEDs to display:

AUTO SELF BALANCE - IF YOU DO NOT CHARGE BATTERY AFTER BATTERY IS CONNECTED TO BALANCER

Regards,
Charger

Oops, found the answer to one of my questions in post 20.

So, what happens if one hooks the charger up and starts charging after the balancer switches into auto self balance mode? Presumably it detects charger activity and halts auto balancing.

Grant

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by gadzby

Thanks Charlie & Charles!

The manual answers most of my questions. Looks like a very useful new product.

A few more question came up afterwards related to charger/balancer operation in several modes:

1) In the auto battery pack checking and auto self balancing modes, it looks like no connection to a charger is necessary (balancer derives power from the battery itself thru the 4 or 6-pin balancer connector). Is my understanding correct?

2) Under what conditions does the balancer enter auto self balancing mode? It's finished when the LED's stop blinking?

Grant

Yes when Balancer is connected to battery it checks and displays the number of cells detected with Red LEDs. <Edit> Balance can start as ealy as 3.2v depending on th amount of imbalance.

When all cells are in balance then the Red LEDs will stop flashing (Note: they do not flash continously but in cycles).

PLease remember I have only had this Balancer for one day and there are still a few areas which are just a little consusing to me.
Charlie and I have been PMing each other and I am sure things will get sorted out soon.
I will say that it works very well and that for once in my life I wish I had more unbalanced packs to test. I am having to deliberately cause in balances just to check it out.

Charles

[Charlie Wang]

Originally Posted by gadzby

Oops, found the answer to one of my questions in post 20.

So, what happens if one hooks the charger up and starts charging after the balancer switches into auto self balance mode? Presumably it detects charger activity and halts auto balancing.

Grant

If you charge the battery when self balance is already in action, balancing continue until achieve +/-0.005V (if you allow balancing to complete)


On the other hand,If your pack balance is already within 0.005V, they will be no self balance and they will be no balancing action during charging.

Regards,
Charlie

[Charlie Wang]

Some inside look of the balancer:
1)If the imbalance of the battery is within 0.03V, balancing begins at 4.1V

2)If imbalance is within 0.005V, there will be no balancing at any voltage

3)If the imbalance of the battery is 0.03V to <0.2V, balancing begins at 3.2V, meaning balancing begins right away

4)If the imbalance is higher than 0.2V, balancing begins at 3.2V also


Things we have to know:

If imbalance is higher than 0.2V,set the charger to 300mAh,if the charger starts charging,you may make an attempt to save the battery

The balancer will beeps 10times(indicate imbalance is higher than 0.2V), auto recheck every minute, if beeps stops,imbalance drops to below 0.2V, hopefully,the pack may continue to improve.

Regards,
Charlie (R & D, Thunder Power Batteries)

[hydrogin]

Great info in this thread.

Eventually, it would be nice to know what specific chargers have been tested successfully with the balancer. I seem to recall two caveats in this thread (or the other TP Balancer thread) about the Astro 109 and the MRC Superbrain.


Lance

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by hydrogin

Great info in this thread.

Eventually, it would be nice to know what specific chargers have been tested successfully with the balancer. I seem to recall two caveats in this thread (or the other TP Balancer thread) about the Astro 109 and the MRC Superbrain.


Lance

As per my testing the TP 205 works fine with the AF 109 ,Apache 2500 ,Tritons and of course the TP 425 charger.


The MRC Superbrain is not recomended for LiPOly charging. Ther have been many Safety notices about this. There have also been many LiPoly batteries destroyed with the Super Brain I personally know of two local flyers who severely puffs LiPolys with it.

There is a curent Thread on this charger here.

Charles

[gadzby]

Thanks again gents for the clarifications - nice idea having the balancer work either in conjuction with or independently from a charger. I'm sold.

Grant

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by gadzby

Thanks again gents for the clarifications - nice idea having the balancer work either in conjuction with or independently from a charger. I'm sold.

Grant

I find it very remarkable and of course I am still learning its little hidden secrets as Charle calls them. It is hooked to a battery in front of me as I type. I charged a 3S 1100 mAh pack to 12.57 open volts ,checked eack cell and they were 4.19,4.19 and 4.19. I discharged one cell down to 4.09 (-.10 v) and then hooked up Balancer .It is now bringing the two remaing cells down to match the one which I dischrged.It has been 10 minutes and the LEDs are just about to stop flashing . Ever time the cells rebound a little they bring them back down. Total time to discharge two high cells down to 4.09v was 15 minutes.Note: Since I am conducting test I made up an extension for the Balancer to battery connection and the extra wire length and connectors does not seem to be effecting the accuracy at all. This is not a recomendation and Charlie may advise against it but since I prefer to charge with the packs inside of a fire proff container and with the hardware on the outside I felt it necessary to conducts these test.

Now I can hardly wait until the matching TP charger is available for testing.

Charles

[Charlie Wang]

From post #8
Photo of Balancer shows Yellow status LED on and Red LEDs for cell # 2 & 3 on

Full charge & full balanced charge
Full charge :voltage of all the cells make up the full charge voltage
Full balanced charge conditions: one or more cell is 4.2V, all others must be higher than 4.19V

Refers to photo on post #8
The balancer yellow status LED turn on to indicate full balanced charge

Charles used the balancer when the pack already at 12.48V, TP's full balanced charge conditions had been met at the time he took the photo, but the balancer continue to balance the pack indicated by flashing LEDs
Hope Charles will help explain this interesting condition better than I can

Regards,
Charlie

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by Charlie Wang

From post #8
Photo of Balancer shows Yellow status LED on and Red LEDs for cell # 2 & 3 on

Full charge & full balanced charge
Full charge :voltage of all the cells make up the full charge voltage
Full balanced charge conditions: one or more cell is 4.2V, all others must be higher than 4.19V

Refers to photo on post #8
The balancer yellow status LED turn on to indicate full balance charge

Charles used the balancer when the pack already at 12.48V, TP's full balanced charge condition had been met at the time he took the photo, but the balancer continue to balance the pack indicated by flashing LEDs
Hope Charles will help explain this interesting condition better than I can

Regards,
Charlie

I updated info in post #8 ,here is a paste of addational info:
When the battery reaches full charged contion (one cell at 4.2V and all others within 0.01v the Yellow Status LED cycles off and on approximately every 30 seconds). The 2 Red LEDs which are on in the photo indicate that the balancer is still trying to achieve a more perfect balance. When a perfect (+ /- 0.005V balance is achieved the Red LEDS will not be active( cycled on).

This Balancer like many electronic devices which perfoms many functions sounds more complicated than it really is.

There are two major completely different stage of operation. The first thing that is done is to hook the Balancer to the Battery. THe Balancer checkes the Battery displays the number of cell detected and the imbalance of the cells in the pack. If the cells in the pack are over 3.2v each and are >than 0.03 imbalance then the balancer will start to balance the cells by lowering the voltage of the higher cells. If all cells are withing 0.03 volts then it just waits.

If all cells are within 0.03 volts then it just waits till 4.1V to begins balancing (if imbalance is still >0.005V)

For imbalance higher than 0.03V
The balancer immeadiately tries to improve the imbalance pack to +/-0.015V(by charging or not as long as all cell are 3.2V or higher)

But
In order to balance to +/-0.005V, it is required to charge cells to above 4.1V (the same applied to auto self balance)
There are three different degrees of imbalance displayed by the LEDs ,these are listed as A; B: and C: in the user's guide.
If the cells are below 4.1v then it balances to within +/- 0.015v per cell.
If the cells are above 4.1v then it balances to within +/- 0.005v per cell.

The second stage of operation is during chargeing. The balancer continues to check the cells and if any cell is imbalance it starts to correct this imbalance. When full charge(1 or more cells at 4.2V) the Yellow Status LEDS is cycled off and on every 30 seconds. At this stage the battery is completed charged for intent and purposes. You may continue to charge it until the charger reaches charge complete stage or simplie end the charge yourself.

Bottom line is this balancer will balance a pack with cells above 3.2 volts with 0.03V imbalance either before or during charging. It does it faster than the other Balancers which I have been using which only start to balance at above 4.1V per cell.

I like it a lot, I have a feeling that my other Balancers will hardly ever get used anymore. There are only a few minor changes / addations which I feel would be improvements but that is just the way I am I can find fault with everything .


Charles

[No Step]

The balancer/tap leads on these batteries, they're all different for different manufactures aren't they? So we need to make up adapter leads for every different type battery mfgr we have? It'll tend to make you stay with one mfgr won't it? The thought of making an adapter for Tanic 4s2p 4300 isn't pleasent to me. I wonder if anyone is going to sell adapters? Be nice if they were standardized.

Following this technology with much interest,.. as one who has experienced a Lipo fire..

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by No Step

The balancer/tap leads on these batteries, they're all different for different manufactures aren't they? So we need to make up adapter leads for every different type battery mfgr we have? It'll tend to make you stay with one mfgr won't it? The thought of making an adapter for Tanic 4s2p 4300 isn't pleasent to me. I wonder if anyone is going to sell adapters? Be nice if they were standardized.

Following this technology with much interest,.. as one who has experienced a Lipo fire..

I agree with you on the connector issue. I have a box full of adaptors and had to make yet another one for this balancer and still need to make a couple of more. One of my pet pives has always been non standardization. Why must every LiPoly manufacture use a differen connector for taps/balancing?. Why must JR RC use a Transmitter charging jack reversed from everyone else. Airtronic use to use different pin out for battery / servos. Aitronics and JR use one shift and everyone els uses a different one. Every manufactures receivers require different crystalsnearly every transmitter takes a different size battery pack and connector.The list goes on and on.

The nice thing about standards is that we have so many to choice from.


Charles

[bwillhite]

Looks Great! Can't wait to get a couple. When should the balancers be available for purchase?

The new TP-1010C charger will have two communication ports, correct? I am looking to be able to charge my 4S3P and 5S3P ProLite packs together in series. I should be able to safely do this with the TP-101C charger and two TP-205 balancers, one on each pack, right?

Thanks for the great review!

Brian

[Charlie Wang]

Originally Posted by No Step

The balancer/tap leads on these batteries, they're all different for different manufactures aren't they? So we need to make up adapter leads for every different type battery mfgr we have? It'll tend to make you stay with one mfgr won't it? The thought of making an adapter for Tanic 4s2p 4300 isn't pleasent to me. I wonder if anyone is going to sell adapters? Be nice if they were standardized.

Following this technology with much interest,.. as one who has experienced a Lipo fire..

The TP connector has been carefully chossen for compact sizes and broad aplications (I spent two and a half years to make this decision)
4 pins compact connector for 2 & 3 cells battery
6 pins compact connector for 4 & 5 cells battery
Expend to 6S, 8S, 10S with the same connectors

All packs from 2 cells 5 cells works with a single balancer (TP205)
All packs from 2 cells to 10 cells works with a single balancer(TP210)

Regards,
Charlie (R & D, Thunder Power Batteries)

[Michael Moritko]

Originally Posted by everydayflyer

I agree with you on the connector issue. I have a box full of adaptors and had to make yet another one for this balancer and still need to make a couple of more. One of my pet pives has always been non standardization. Why must every LiPoly manufacture use a differen connector for taps/balancing?. Why must JR RC use a Transmitter charging jack reversed from everyone else. Airtronic use to use different pin out for battery / servos. Aitronics and JR use one shift and everyone els uses a different one. Every manufactures receivers require different crystalsnearly every transmitter takes a different size battery pack and connector.The list goes on and on.

The nice thing about standards is that we have so many to choice from.


Charles

Charles: Can you identify the balancing connector on the TP pack (i.e., type, manufacturer, etc.)?

Mike Moritko

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by Michael Moritko

Charles: Can you identify the balancing connector on the TP pack (i.e., type, manufacturer, etc.)?

Mike Moritko

Sorry Mike I do not have that imformation ,perhaps Charlie will post it. It is the same style as the PolyQuest ones but is black and only approximately 5/16 wide for the 4 pin one which is used for the 2-3 cell port. I had Charlie send me a few extra ones(males like on the battery packs) so that I could make adapters for my other batteries.

Charles

[everydayflyer]

Well I was have a great time flying my approximately 100 MPH 24" SpeedWing 250 this evening and flew to LVC with PQ 8503S. Got home (3 minutes walk) and checked battery 10.7 open volts. Connected to TP-205 and Yellow Status LED off and 3 red LEDs flashed for 60 seconds .This indicated cell imbalance of over 0.2V. Hooked up to astroFlight 109 and started charge at 0.1A (my standard for cells under 3.7V) . Ten minutes and 0.022 (22mA) later the pack was balanced and open voltage was up to 10.7 a few minutes later 30 mA in.. Ten minutes later I increased charge rate to 0.9A after removing from the charger and balancer to check the cells my self. 3.65 / 3.66 / 3.64 pack 10.65 Ten minutes earlier this pack was more than 0.2V out of balance. I reconnected and finished charge at 0.9A and the cells stayed in perfect balance for the remainder of the charge. Can anyone say job well done Charlie?

Charles

[Mike in Fresno]

I want one!!

[Fast Fly]

When will the TP 205 be available for the public to purchase? Charlie?? Fast Fly

[RC Man]

Charlie,
Are you planning any changes before the general release?

RC

[turbolover]

Just for understanding (I got confused along this thread):
1) First I hook up my PolyQuest 2S1500mAh to the TP205 (compatible plugs?)
2) Then I hook up the TP205 to my Schulze ISL6-330.
3) Then I validate the status of the Lipo on the TP205.
4) If ok I start charging 1C. If not, I use a low charge (100mA or something) to balance.
OK?

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by Fast Fly

When will the TP 205 be available for the public to purchase? Charlie?? Fast Fly

From Charlie's post #5 I believe:

We like to take a week or two to analyse whatever feedback we get from TP205,
Then, it may take another 3 to 4 weeks for the TP210 to hit the market

__________________________________________________ __

Charles

[everydayflyer]

Originally Posted by turbolover

Just for understanding (I got confused along this thread):
1) First I hook up my PolyQuest 2S1500mAh to the TP205 (compatible plugs?)
2) Then I hook up the TP205 to my Schulze ISL6-330.
3) Then I validate the status of the Lipo on the TP205.
4) If ok I start charging 1C. If not, I use a low charge (100mA or something) to balance.
OK?

First you connect LiPoly to TP-205 it then checks the Status of the Battery and reports status using LEDs and chirps.

If Battery is imbalanced more than X amount and the cell(s) are above 3.2 v it will start to balance the cells.
Next you connect and start the charge and Balancer will continue to check and balance the cells as necessary.
If the pack has enough charge on it and the pack is out of balance and if left hooked up to the balancer but not a chrger the Balancer will still balance the pack.
You can connect a fully(?) charged pack with out of balnce cells and it will balance the pack by dischrging the high volts cell(s).

It is much easier to under stand with Balancer in hand. It is very easy to use and most users will learn as they use it.

Charles

[RC Man]

Originally Posted by everydayflyer

From Charlie's post #5 I believe:

We like to take a week or two to analyse whatever feedback we get from TP205,
Then, it may take another 3 to 4 weeks for the TP210 to hit the market

__________________________________________________ __

Charles

Ok, so realistically it will be July before they are widely available.

[Charlie Wang]

Fast fly, Rc man and all,

Availablity of TP205: 2 to 5 cells balancer
I just approved the release of 3000 units of TP205 balancer, my thank you to Charles and others who help me with field tests.
1)We shipped 60 units to Germany on Friday
2)400 units to be released on Monday (week of May 16)
3)2540 units more will be available first week of June

Production and QC has been slower than we anticipated, to ensure the quality, we do not want to rush.

Availability of TP210: 2 to 10 cells balancer
To be released on June 30

Regards
Charlie

[Charlie Wang]

It is much easier to under stand with Balancer in hand. It is very easy to use and most users will learn as they use it.(quote from Charles)

Looks like this:
First you connect LiPoly to TP-205, it then checks the Status of the Battery and reports status using LEDs and chirps.(see manual for details)

In order to balance faster and safer, I invented these effective solutions by balancing in two stages and bypass balance for good pack(if battery is <0.005V imbalance)

Prebalance(stage1) begins immeadiatly for pack with imbalancer higher than 0.03V, prebalance improves imbalance to +/-0.015V

If you continue to charge battery to 4.1V/cell, then normal balancing(stage2) begins and the balancer continues to check and balance the cells as necessary

You can also connect a fully charged pack with "out of balance cells" and it will balance the pack by discharging the high volts cell(s).

Causion: If the balancer display high imbalance over 0.2V, please read manual and follow safety precausion

Regards,
Charlie