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Old May 08, 2005, 09:18 PM
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Paul Willenborg's Avatar
Little Rock,AR,USA
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West Wings Hawker Hunter

Does anyone else have one of these kits under construction? I'm working on mine now and will do a build thread soon, but I'd like to see if other builders are having some of the same issues I'm running into. I did see the German "early bird" thread, but it seems like that one just sort of died before the model was finished. I looked on some of the UK forums and was quite surprised to find no mention of the kit. Maybe I missed the better forums?

thanks, Paul
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Old May 08, 2005, 10:12 PM
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Little Rock,AR,USA
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Well I just found the thread on the UK Electrifly forums.....another thread that ends without a completed model. And many of the same issues I've run into.

Very interested to hear from anyone who is building one, even more interested to hear from someone who has finished and flown it!

Paul
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Old May 09, 2005, 12:20 AM
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Powell River BC Canada
Joined Sep 2003
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I liked the looks of this one so much I bought three. LOL

But been to busy to put one one the build table.

One thing I was concerned about were the length of the wires. Both battery and aileron servos. But I'm sure these could be worked around.

Lorne.
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Old May 09, 2005, 12:40 AM
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Actually that's one thing I wouldn't be worried about. In EDF's it's quite common to have long wire runs from the battery to the motor. The rule of thumb is to keep the battery to ESC wires as short as possible and make the longer run from the ESC to the motor. Long wires between the ESC and battery may blow the capacitors on the ESC.

The aileron extensions should not be any trouble at all. In fact, I will be moving my aileron servos further out in the wing to provide a direct, straight pushrod connection.

I have a five meter wingspan electric sailplane with six servos in the wing and two in fin- it took 30 feet of servo wire to hook everything up!!!! No problems at all- heavy gauge servo wiring, Multiplex IPD receiver and five cell receiver packs. Ordinary extensions should work fine in the Hunter.

This kit looks like it will build up into a really nice looking model, but it's been a very annoying build so far.

Paul
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Old May 09, 2005, 01:11 AM
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Hiya Paul,

good to see that other people are building the Hawker too!

Yesterday, I've finished my WW Hunter's fuselage with oratex. Apart from screwing up the MiniFan mount in the rear (I've used the "wrong" notches in the plywood formers), the build so far is pretty much straightforward!

Oh, planking the rear end of the fuse was a pain,but with the aid of thin CA and Kicker I managed to get it sort of right...

The distance between ESC and motor isn't too great, by the way - I've placed the Kontronik ESC between the inlet ducts, so the extension is just about 10"!

I've installed a Mega 16/15/3 running on 4s PolyQuest 3100MAh. This setups draws only 28A and pulls nicely!

Tomorrow, I'll start building the wings...

Best regards - Paco
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Old May 09, 2005, 01:52 AM
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Little Rock,AR,USA
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Paco,

Ah, those were your pictures I saw in the gallery last week. I knew somebody else was building one.

I made some modifications to the fuselage (more longerons) and preformed some balsa sheet which will make the tail section much easier to build. I'll post details in a separate thread in a day or two.

How did the technique of unrolling the duct inside the fuselage work out?

Paul
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Old May 09, 2005, 02:15 AM
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A stateside builder of this kit told me that the following points need attention by builders:

1. re-route some control runs so that you can remove the drive battery.

2. take care to eliminate hysteresis in the control runs

3. I forget what he said about the CG, but the first flight had it too far aft - dunno if this was the kit's CG, but that and the hysteresis made the thing horse about throughout all its first flight.

It has a fixed u/c, weighs 49.5oz auw, MF480, Hacker B40-11, Hacker master 70 opto, motor timing #3 (for max rpm) TP3s2p 4200 lipo, 26A full throttle

Builder doesn't like the way it flies due to aforementioned control hysteresis. Judging from the DVD he sent me, it looks like it needs more power than it has, though fixed gear will affect performance due to weight & drag.

(One way I once minimised hysteresis in a rudder circuit was to use sufficient inverse expo so the servo activated the rudder faster round neutral)

FWIW - I haven't seen a kit, or this model in the flesh.

Gordon
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Old May 09, 2005, 02:31 AM
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Switzerland, ZH, Dietikon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Willenborg
How did the technique of unrolling the duct inside the fuselage work out?
Hi Paul,

I've put the supplied sheet of plastic in the formers after I've finished the basic fuse and marked the overlap first. Then I removed most of the overlap before permanently gluing the rolled duct into the formers.

With a bit of force to achive a nice unrolling/expanding, it didn't fit too bad!

However, the rear duct is made of thin overhead projector foil in my case - I wasn't able to get the (heavy) ABS exhaust pipe right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
1. re-route some control runs so that you can remove the drive battery.
Oops, I almost forgot! I've relocated the horizontal stab's servo position! It now sits just behind the cockpit's rear wall to achive a direct, straight line from the servo to the tail feathers... I'll publish a pic later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
It has a fixed u/c, weighs 49.5oz auw, MF480, Hacker B40-11, Hacker master 70 opto, motor timing #3 (for max rpm) TP3s2p 4200 lipo, 26A full throttle

it looks like it needs more power than it has, though fixed gear will affect performance due to weight & drag.
He probably should remove the uc and switch the battery to a lighter pack. The PolyQuest 2600MAh is 1.5oz lighter and still provides 6 minutes WOT!

Best regards - Paco
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Old May 09, 2005, 04:23 AM
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Dont want to appear too thick, but here goes. What is hysterisis? Sounds very medical to me and perhaps a womens problem. Arf
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Old May 09, 2005, 06:08 AM
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Normally caused by binding and exessive play in the control linkages.

You move the control stick, and the surface fails to move until the stick has gone through an angle, when the surface then responds rather late. When you release the control stick to spring back to its centre position, initially the surface stays deflected until the stick has moved back a little. Then the surface doesn't travel fully back to the centre because of the play and binding in the linkage. So you have to overshoot with the stick to centre the control surface.

This effect isn't always caused by bad building ... bad control circuit design can cause it too. I don't know which it was in the case of my friend's Hunter, though I gathered from his comments that the way the control linkages were organised was a contributory factor.

Again, FWIW, as I haven't seen any of these Hunter kits or models.

When one of my models had this problem, as mentioned above, I'd designed a poor linkage arrangement to operate the swept rudder on a DF jet. The control rod from the servo was parallel to the fuselage datum, and ended in ball joints at both the servo end, and on the rudder horn. The rudder hinge line was swept back quite a lot. There was no play in the linkage, but the fact that the rudder hinge line was well away from being at right angles to the axis of the control rod's line of action resulted in the rudder end of the rod moving up and down as well as fore and aft when the rudder moved. In this situation, the smallest amount of stickyness and slop in the rudder hinge can, and did in my case, cause a surprising amount of lost motion around neutral.

To eliminate the effect, it's best, if possible, to ensure that a pushrod is at right angles to the hinge line of the control surface it's operating.

Gordon
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Last edited by Gordon; May 09, 2005 at 01:25 PM.
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Old May 09, 2005, 06:32 AM
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Powell River BC Canada
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All good points. I can't hardly wait to get started. But it will probaby be a winter project for me.

One thing I liked when looking it over were the plans. Quite a lot of info there. And of course lots of vac formed parts to play with.

One thing that suprised me initialy was the high use of ply. Would have expected balsa.
But I'm sure it will work fine.
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Old May 09, 2005, 12:08 PM
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That's what I meant...

Okay, these are the modifications stabilisator wise. Oh, and a little teaser, the Hunter's cockpit section!

Best regards - Paco
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Old May 09, 2005, 02:25 PM
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Barnsley, Great Britain (UK)
Joined Dec 2000
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I had the same problem. The runs for the elevator bind. I ended up using a digital servo to get the servo to centre correctly. I sheeted my wings in and finished the model in glass cloth (0.6oz), as the RBC kits. This resulted in a slightly overweight model, but it still flys OK on 10 CP1700 and a FUN400-36. The landings are a bit fast though. I maidened this on a windy day, and this helped in the first turns as the nose dropped quite a lot. Without that wind I would have lost air speed and crashed. Reducing the elevator throw and adding expo made things a lot better.

I also found that the minifan was too wide at the rear and the two fuz halves wouldnt join. Measuring it I found that addind an 1/8" strip around one half gave a perfect fit for the fan. Good job as well, because when the nose section was offered up this aligned with the rear perfectly too. Without the 1/8" strip the rear section was too narrow, ie. oval not round. Dont know if this is a kit error or a build error, but I cant see how I managed to get this wrong.
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Old May 10, 2005, 12:11 AM
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Paul Willenborg's Avatar
Little Rock,AR,USA
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It's good to see so much interest in the Hunter! I've always thought it is one of the most beautiful planes ever built and have waited a long time for a kit. Unfortunately this kit has a few serious issues and a lot of minor problems. Still, I believe it can be made into a good flying, good looking model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
1. re-route some control runs so that you can remove the drive battery.

2. take care to eliminate hysteresis in the control runs

It has a fixed u/c, weighs 49.5oz auw
Gordon, thanks for weighing in here, that's excellent information. I could see that the control systems would be troublesome just by looking at the plans. I will be mounting my elevator servo much like Paco did and using straight linkages to the ailerons.

His weight seems quite high even considering the addition of LG. RTF weight is quoted as about 1200 G (42.3 oz.) in the instructions with a 10 cell 1700 nicd pack and an Irvine 480 cobalt motor. His lipo pack should be at least five ounces lighter than that, not sure about the motor weights.

Does anyone know the weight of the Irvine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoverTomcat
Okay, these are the modifications stabilisator wise. Oh, and a little teaser, the Hunter's cockpit section!
Good solution. Are the pushrods actually connected in the pictures? Very nice cockpit...gotta have pilots in scale models!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilman
One thing I liked when looking it over were the plans. Quite a lot of info there.

One thing that suprised me initialy was the high use of ply. Would have expected balsa.
Yes, lots of info on the plan, but several mistakes and/or contradictions too. (More about this tomorrow.) Using ply for the fuselage formers makes sense, but plywood wing ribs?!?!? WHAT WERE THOSE PEOPLE THINKING????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Haigh
I sheeted my wings in and finished the model in glass cloth (0.6oz)
Mark, what is your RTF weight? I will be sheeting my wings too, and would like to glass it, but may end up doing dope and tissue depending on the weight. I'm mystified by your fuselage problem. My fan wouldn't fit either, but that was because the motor mount parts are too wide- I had to trim about 1/16" off each side. The rear fuselage is circular....your post sent me scampering off to the workshop where I was relieved to see that the front and rear sections do match up, phew!

I'd hoped to start an actual building thread today, but didn't get any workshop time. I'm resizing photos now and will post again tomorrow afternoon.
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Old May 10, 2005, 01:22 AM
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Switzerland, ZH, Dietikon
Joined Jun 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Willenborg
Good solution. Are the pushrods actually connected in the pictures? Very nice cockpit...gotta have pilots in scale models!
Hey Paul,

well spotted! No, they're not connected to the servo yet. I have to install the rudder control horns first...

Oh, here's another modification I did - I used pushrod covers as cannon muzzles. This allows much more cooling air to get through the fuselage.

Best regards - Paco
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