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Old May 06, 2005, 05:20 PM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
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FW 190 A8-a big 'un

At 83 inch span and 14-15 lbs. before motor/batteries this would be impressive, in more ways then one. Although the impression might not be positive, say in the case of my wife.

Has 7,200 rivets and 250 screws molded into the fiberglass surface, but then on a model like this you probably don't want to count either rivets or $'s.
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_product/scale_fw190.html

With so much of the model completed at the factory, you couldn't use it for competition but it would be fun to be "first on your block".

These can be had for a mere $1,350 or so before minor accessories like motors and battery. Somewhat more than the Alfa foamies, but then they say you get what you pay for....How would one power a beast like this and how would it fly?
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Old May 06, 2005, 08:07 PM
The Hun in the Sun
vonJaerschky's Avatar
Canada, BC, Comox
Joined Nov 2003
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Well, I hate to say it, but anything that size I would put a gas engine in. I'm sure there are electric combos that are quite do-able, but I think the cost would be pro-hibitive to all but the die-hardiest of electro people.

As to how it would fly, probably very well. The bigger they are, the better they fly.
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Old May 06, 2005, 10:26 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
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Seems to me if you can afford the $1,350 for the basic airframe, purchasing the electric power system shouldn't be a problem. Me, I'll stick to my 48" jobs, thank you.

Larry
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Old May 07, 2005, 10:19 AM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
1,892 Posts
I figure power system cost is around $1500 for electric. Including receiver and servos, total electric cost of the whole model, ready to fly, is about $3,200. This is about $800 more than a gas version, 30% more.

I agree these are big numbers. However I just visited Topgun last week and read the magazines, and there are people who spend this much on a plane all the time. If you figure their time on the highly scale jobs they are spending several multiples of the raw cost of the plane.

As an electric guy at Topgun, I couldn't help chuckling as numerous contestants struggled to get their motors to run. And I observed several dead stick landings.

I find that thinking of a plane this big/expensive is an interesting exercise. It makes me ask what I get out of this hobby and what I am willing to pay for it.

Right now I just have the questions not the answer.
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Old May 07, 2005, 11:18 AM
designer/builder
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Kars, Ontario, Canada
Joined Apr 2004
805 Posts
Nice model but way too expensize!

I could build the airframe for this plane with that amount of money! That's a pretty easy decision for me.

Rob
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Old May 07, 2005, 01:03 PM
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DougC's Avatar
New Hampshire, USA
Joined Sep 2004
506 Posts
Well hold on a second. An Alfa model weighs in at about 16oz, and costs around $100. This model weighs in at about 14 pound, and cost $1350............making this model about $6 a pound cheaper.........................
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Old May 07, 2005, 02:16 PM
All under control, Grommit!
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,578 Posts
Have to reluctantly agree with vonJaersky, models of this size are somewhat better suited to petrol engines- she's a real beauty though, isn;t she, in that menacing "Butcher Bird" way. The 190A-8 is just soooooo much better looking than the 190 Dora to my mind.

Madrob- what IS that little cutie? She's lovely and very evocative of the Halberstadt and Pfalz scouts.
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Old May 07, 2005, 04:50 PM
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Kars, Ontario, Canada
Joined Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer
Madrob- what IS that little cutie? She's lovely and very evocative of the Halberstadt and Pfalz scouts.
It's a Flitzer Z-21 which is a british homebuilt that uses a converted VW engine. All wood and built much like a model. There's a link to the desinger's site.

http://www.flitzer.btinternet.co.uk/Indexx.html

I have the plans and hope to start building mine this winter when my current full size project is complete (150hp Champ).

I built a small model of this plane (IPS power) and will be flying it soon.

Rob
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Old May 07, 2005, 08:15 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
stumax's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2002
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Hmmm, AXI 5330 ($250-ish, 32xGP3300's @$5each , Master 77-3P opto ($220). That's all you'd need, and it would cost $630-ish. Add another batt and that adds $160. 3 batts and you can fly almost non stop all day, and if you buy 100 cells you're gonna get them at less than $5 each. OK, perhaps a 90 Acro esc may be better (or the new Jeti equivalent which will be about $250, I believe) for longevity, or just do like I did and stick a big heatsink on your Master 77. The thing about planes this size is that you don't need lipos, and the electric drive is more efficient than the single cylinder gas engine because you have a bigger prop and it's turning at a constant rpm, not varying by 10% every revolution due to the thump of the firing. Big electric planes sound much better also (only if you don't have a gearbox whine). Most IC guys grossly overpower their warbirds - have you ever seen a real warbird go vertical out of sight on takeoff? My next electric warbird will be a 1/5 scale Macchi 202, with the power system desribed above. I can do it cheaper than buying a gas engine (down here especially as the engines almost double in price when they cross the equator for some reason).

Stu.
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Old May 07, 2005, 08:27 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Sydney, Australia
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....
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Old May 08, 2005, 02:03 AM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,578 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by madrob
It's a Flitzer Z-21 which is a british homebuilt that uses a converted VW engine. All wood and built much like a model. There's a link to the desinger's site.
Of COURSE. I have a freeplan of the Flitzer at 1/5th scale, I'd have recognised her if I'd seen your red model. Good luck with the build and it would be great if you could include some build photos of the real thing on RC Groups
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Old May 08, 2005, 08:49 AM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
1,892 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumax
The thing about planes this size is that you don't need lipos
Stu I am curious why you say this. To me it looks like lipos give you better weight and more capacity. A 10s4p lipo pack would be about 40oz. and give you 8000mah of capacity, while 30 3300 mah "round" cells would be 73 oz. - about twice the weight for half the capacity. While the lipos cost more, on a technical basis ignoring cost they seem like the better choice.

That said, I am not too worried about the "how" of converting this model to electric - but still am not sure about the "why" or why not. The posters above seem to be saying that for $4,000 or so you can have a homebuilt, so that is a better way to spend the money.

However, it's easy to spend that much on a bunch of smaller models or a few .40-sized conversions.

Part of the answer of big model attraction I think is the social aspect. Big scale models draw crowds. A homebuilt will draw attention from other pilots but not a crowd unless it is at a fly-in. a fairly rare event.
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Old May 08, 2005, 07:39 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
stumax's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Aug 2002
4,380 Posts
Greg, it's simply a matter of cost. A 10S3P 6000mAh TP pack will cost $680 and give you less than twice the flying time of a GP3300 pack - that doesn't sound like good value to me, as you could get 4 x GP3300 packs for less. Lipos are really only necessary where you need max power density, such as for park fliers, EDF's or competition aerobatic planes, or where you want very long flights. BTW GP3300's are pretty much old tech now, with the IB3800's coming in the market (and giving 4000mAhr). A model this size needs to weigh 14-15lbs to look convincing in the air - too light and it won't have that "heavy metal warbird sit" about it. At 15lbs, with 100W/lb, it would only need 45A or so with GP3300's to get all the power it needs (having done that calc, the Master 77opto would be plenty). Flight times I would imagine would be around 10 minutes unless you flew full throttle all the time. Change to IB3800's and you can add another 2-3 minutes flight time. If it were designed specifically for electric the airframe could be made much lighter than for the IC version as there's no vibration to contend with, so the finished weight would come in under the IC version. When you do the sums, a big electric warbird is better than a gas guzzler in my book.

Stu.
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 12:37 PM
Trampling out the vintage
Joined Feb 2002
1,892 Posts
I found the web site of the German supplier of this plane and it shows he will be adding a FW 190 D later this year.

http://www.sist-modell.de/index3.html

Imagine one of these at about 83 inches, powered by electric. I am already starting to feel my credit card get hot, and rehersing explanations to wife.

My big issue these days is building time and this looks like a fairly fast build. DJaerotech has the manual for the" A" version on their web site.

Computer images by Gareth Hector:
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Old Aug 26, 2005, 01:35 PM
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vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Actually I 've seen this model - or something similar - at a show.

It sounded totally wrong with a big 4-stroke in it.

And it certainly wasn't underweight judging by the way it flew.

You can get cheap LIPO cells now that won't do the 10C stuff, but frankly who needs it - I don't want 6 minute flights: I'd go for 5C cells and LOTS of them to get a decent sort of 15 minutes plus flight.

Probably $400-$500 for the pack, BUT I'd expect it to do 10 minutes flying and then just 20 minutes charging because you would never get near to flattening it.

That's another reason I don't like NiMh - takes an hour to recharge and you nearly always WILL flatten them.

LIPOS may take an hour to fully recharge, but if you don't flatten them its a lot less...and they last better too.

AND you can pre charge them before going to the field and not have to 'top off'
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