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Old Apr 29, 2005, 07:12 PM
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Yippee!
New Hacker 20-20L WOW! Part. 2 .......(and some other A20s?)

Well this is a follow on from the first New Hacker 20-20L WOW! thread.
I thought I'd open it a little off topic with a picture of my new A20-22L.
Same on the outside, a little windier on the inside.

Aidan
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Old Apr 29, 2005, 08:29 PM
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Does the A20 stand for a 20mm stator vs the 22mm stator used by the Axi?

Aio,
Sounds to me like you are putting this motor in a glider. I am also interested in the same thing and so very interested in your 11x7 CAM prop results. What is the weight of your intended glider?

-Kwok
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Old Apr 29, 2005, 08:48 PM
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Hi Kwok,

Not sure what the A20 stands for but I doubt it's the stator. It's probably nearer 22mm like the AXI though I haven't measured it. I'm not sure how Hacker's naming system works. The B20 motors are 20mm outside diameter inrunners, there are short and long versions so 20 doesn't refer to the stator length. The B40 motors are not 40mm outside diameter and I don't think the B50 is 50mm diameter either. Can anyone tell us what these numbers mean. As for the 20L or 22L, I'm pretty sure these refer to the number of winds and the length of the stator. There are S, M and L motors. I think they're identical construction except for the length of the stator and rotor. Maybe Phil (Dr. Kiwi) can confirm that since he has a selection to compare! The 22 is lower KV than the 20 presumably becasue it's got 22 winds instead of 20.

I'll be putting this motor in an Altus XL also known variously as the Omega 1.8E, Highlight 1.8E, Fly-Q and Nelly. This design must win the prize as the most re-named airplane around.
I expect it to weight somewhere around 22oz approx.
The prop is actually an 11x6 Graupner CAM folder. I haven't got the plane or cells yet. Both are on order. I'll let you know when I get it up and running but that will probably take a few weeks. The cells will be 3S PolyQuest N1800.
I'm hoping that will draw somewhere near 19A or 20A but I'm not at all sure.
The plane and my power system are shown below (The aircraft picture was stolen from a post by Jaywatay in another thread).
The colour co-ordination (purple everything) is a coincidence I assure you!

Aidan
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Old Apr 29, 2005, 09:10 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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22L Startup: YIKES! What's that screech?

Thanks to all for confirming my screecher is normal! I tried every setting for both timing advance and soft/hard start mode with the CC25... they all screech, but at least I know nothing is amiss.
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Old Apr 29, 2005, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aio_1
Hi Kwok,
.....
I'll be putting this motor in an Altus XL also known variously as the Omega 1.8E, Highlight 1.8E, Fly-Q and Nelly. This design must win the prize as the most re-named airplane around.
I expect it to weight somewhere around 22oz approx.
The prop is actually an 11x6 Graupner CAM folder. I haven't got the plane or cells yet. Both are on order. I'll let you know when I get it up and running but that will probably take a few weeks. The cells will be 3S PolyQuest N1800.
I'm hoping that will draw somewhere near 19A or 20A but I'm not at all sure.
...
Aidan
That's really light. Maybe I will need the A30. I have a BOT arf which is more like 65oz. I would have to run it for at least a minute. Will be watching for your results.

-Kwok
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Old Apr 29, 2005, 09:58 PM
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I don't know your plane but I wouldn't risk the A20 on a 1 minute run at currents anywhere near 20A. I don't think I'll need more than 10 seconds to reach 300ft or so which is why I think 20A is okay. With the limited cooling normally available in a glider I don't think the motor could take an extended high power run. What diameter motor can you fit in the nose and what sort of climb performance do you want? A gentle cruise to altitude or a vertical climb?
I would think for any sort of steep climb you'd need maybe 400W at least for a 65oz glider - but that's just a guess!

Aidan
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Old Apr 29, 2005, 10:30 PM
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Bakersfield Meadow Fld, California, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
I have an axi A20-22L and X-20 esc That screeches on startup...i have a 10x4.7 gws slowfly prop and tp 1320 bats....its really loud and annoying but as soon as i get to about 10% throttle it gets smooth....anyone else got this prob?...whats the solution?....how do u program these lil x controllers anyway..i have 2...the directions are a bit confusing to me.
Err no such thing as an AXI 20-22L, and AXI's do not screech at all. I assume you mean a Hacker?

Scott
Greenfield Flyers
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 12:30 AM
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gainesville FL
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hey ender...thanx for catching that....axi...hacker....bah how could i have confused the two?....will edit that...i meant hacker
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 02:39 AM
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hm i got a few questions on these outrunner motors ,

ive been looking at them for a while now and since im used to flying planes weighing 18 to 25 oz on geard 20mm brushless setups such as himax 2025- 4200 and just recently a feigao 2045- 4800 that gets me 40 oz of thrust on a 3cell li-poly geard 6.6 to 1 turning a apc 12-6 prop

ive noticed that there is a real limited amount of info on the outrunner type motors as far as thrust goes
ive seen it said that typicaly you need 2.1 thrust to weight ratio to have a good 3d setup, if that is the case how come i see these little outrunners rated at around 15 amps being used on alot of 3d planes weighing some where around 15 -20 oz and turning 10-4.7 props are they getting in excess of 30 oz of thrust out of something like the hacker a20-20l?

those of you who have experience with them specificly the a20-20l how would it compare to the current setup im useing (fiegao 2045-4800 apc 12-6 sf prop 6.6-1 gearing on a poly quest 1500 or 1800 li-poly) as far as hovering, harriers , etc go

do they draw more amps than the non outrunner type geard brushless motors to get the same amount of thrust?

are they better suited for 3d flying than geard motors ?

is spool up time faster because there is no gearbox allowing for better control over the plane in a hover?

i know tork roll effect is going to be less because of the smaller prop does this make these motors better suited for hovering and other slow high alpha maneuvers because you dont need to fight the tork roll of a larger prop

realy im looking for an overall comparison between the two types of motors for 3d flight and a recomendation for the plane i am curently flying (3dfoamy 540 edge) i see that the recomended motor is a hacker a20-20l but i have no clue as to why they would recomend that motor over a typical geard brushless, when from what i can tell the thrust looks to be less than what im getting out of my current setup

ive tryed a 10-47 prop on my curent setup and i was at 3/4 throttle and didnd have what i thought was enough power to realy punch out of a hover and gearing to a smaller gear would draw to many amps

hopefully some one on here can answer most of these questions cause it seems there is realy no way to compare the two yet on line and i havnt seen enough people posting info about them

i see people say they are better than geard drives but realy give no explanation as to why that is ..

or realy is it all a matter of preferance?
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 12:45 PM
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Jacksonville, Florida, United States
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I have a question about the A20/20L. I am new to outrunners. I have used an A20 on a Yak and installed it the way it came from the factory with the prop on the wired plate end.

For another plane I need to move the prop to the rotating can end. Do I just remove the c-clip and thrust washer, loosen the wheel collar and push the shaft through so it sticks out the rotating can end, tighten the wheel collar? Will the magnets hold the can on without anything to hold the shaft on the plate end.

Thanks,
lafjax
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 01:09 PM
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lafjax,

I don't think you need to move the shaft at all.
Just attach the supplied prop driver to the can end (it attaches with 4 bolts supplied) and I assume the spare collet goes adjacent to the circlip (not certain about that, I would have thought you'd use one or the other. Maybe better to use the collet instead of the circlip)
The supplied cruciform mount can be used for attaching to a bulkhead or bolt it on directly.
Below is a picture if the motor installed this way which I stole from the Mini E3D build thread.

Aidan
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 02:00 PM
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gainesville FL
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if you want to use some other prop adaptor or prop saver that attaches to a shaft then you may have to move the shaft. use the wheel collar on the back end to keep the bell from being pulled off. its not hard...the circlip is not used....the shaft easily slides either way.
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 02:44 PM
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hmm.. nice review here on the hacker a20-20l

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0&goto=newpost
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 03:16 PM
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sledge,

you might want to try that link again. You've created a link in this thread to this thread!

Aidan
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Old Apr 30, 2005, 03:55 PM
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Jacksonville, Florida, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aio_1
lafjax,

I don't think you need to move the shaft at all.
Just attach the supplied prop driver to the can end (it attaches with 4 bolts supplied) and I assume the spare collet goes adjacent to the circlip (not certain about that, I would have thought you'd use one or the other. Maybe better to use the collet instead of the circlip)
The supplied cruciform mount can be used for attaching to a bulkhead or bolt it on directly.
Below is a picture if the motor installed this way which I stole from the Mini E3D build thread.

Aidan
Aidan, the picture is what I'm doing. I've done it but there is nothing holding the can and shaft on the stator but magnetic force. There is nothing on the back of the plate end holding the shaft. Right? With force I can pull the prop/can off the stator.
lafjax

lafjax
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