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Old Apr 18, 2005, 09:49 AM
Registered User
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jan 2005
66 Posts
i don't know just what to buy

I Don't Know What To Get

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greeting one and all

i have a short list of sailplanes i am looking at and would like some input.

here they are

DG 600 molded

DUO Discus molded

DG 505


i have had 2 2meter sailplanes before and want to get something that will like being towed and can do a winch as well
also and dealers you can point me too as well

thank you

craig
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 10:03 AM
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Seadog's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Jan 2004
810 Posts
Need More Info

Craig,
In order for someone to suggest a scale sailplane for you, we need more info. In particular, what two 2m sailplanes did you have and how were they flown? How long have you been flying? Do you use a winch regularly, or do you have aerotow opportunities nearby? In fact, where is "nearby" for you?

More info will get you more responses.

Dave Smith
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 10:45 AM
Registered User
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jan 2005
66 Posts
ok dave

i live in lancaster pa and have been flying for the last 20 years off and on now back on in a big way

my 2 meter bird was a carl goldberg gentle lady which we flew off a winch when i lived in virginia beach


the tow plane i would like to use is a cadet sr with a os 91 4 stroke motor lots of pull!!!


i don't know if i want scale my first choice or TD like the breeze

i like the shot of your ka6
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 11:49 AM
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Seadog's Avatar
Canada, ON, Toronto
Joined Jan 2004
810 Posts
OK, Craig....let's try. You may find this a bit negative, but mostly the feedback you get will be to help make sure that you don't make a mistake that turns you off scale sailplanes. We all love scale here, and the more the merrier....but it is important to get started in the right way.

So here goes.....others please chime in:

1) Some stick time with a non-scale aileron plane should be first on your list. Particularly with your preference for the modern glass ships you need to realise that the wing loading is higher than you have been flying and flight behaviour will be significantly different. They move quickly, things happen fast, and you need to be able to react in the right way sometimes. Suggestions from others for a good aileron upgrade? Mine was an Alcyone, but I'm not sure they are in vogue any more! Spirit Elite?

2) With the sailplanes you prefer and your wish to be able to winch launch, you will probably be restricted to less than 4 meters. Larger planes can be winch launched (always ROG for scale planes) but much bigger than 4m will outgrow your club winch quickly.

3) Even with the <4m sailplanes, your .91 four-stroke is an absolute minimum, and most would say it is too small. There have been some good discussions on here about tug power requirements, and I think we all agree that you CAN tow with minimum power, but only if both the tug pilot and the sailplane pilot are experienced. If they aren't, lots of tug power can get you out of some messy spots. Messy both from the standpoint of the tug and the sailplane.

4) If you can, find someone near Lancaster that aerotows and hang out for a while, asking lots of questions. Even if most of your flying will be winch, you can learn a lot from the scale guys that will be towing.

5) You might want to check out Icare (www.icare-rc.com/) for a north american supplier who deals in all sizes. There are other suppliers too, and some smaller planes that might fit your needs once you have that aileron experience.

This is just a start. Anybody else? Maybe we should start a sticky at some point regarding "Getting Started in Scale".

P.S. It's not a Ka6, it's a Cherokee II

Dave Smith
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Last edited by Seadog; Apr 18, 2005 at 12:09 PM.
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 12:05 PM
Registered User
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jan 2005
66 Posts
oops see thats what i know about sailplanes

something in 3m is all the bigger i want to go i did spend the weekend with the local club and have done winch lanches but that was a while ago

we have 1 guy that does towing on his sailplane at the power club

i also understand that this is a game of energy mangement not just wack the throttle and watch her go

i liked this weekend i could see the glider rise in the updraft and watching these guys circle round to get back in the lift just showed me even more how this is a event of flying with grace kinda of like riding trials bikes
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 12:29 PM
Registered User
Belle Mead NJ
Joined Mar 2005
71 Posts
Graig,
Having quite similar considerations, I went for the DG-600. The models you mentioned are indeed small models (hight aspect ratio) that will need to be flown rather fast: they are not floaters… I decided to go for the DG-600 since it has the lowest wing loading and therefore the one I expect to be the easiest to fly in small and wimpy thermals or on tiny inland slopes.
I bought mine from John D at Endless Mountain Models (EMM). He is a nice, wise and very knowledgeable guy that doesn’t just sell boxes… I addition he offered me a very good deal. I went for the foam sheeted wings since it's lighter and easier to repair or modify (I still haven’t decided if I’ll add flaps…). In addition, although not mentioned on the model characteristics, I’ve been told that the sheeted wing DG-600 has spoilers, the molded version doesn't… I should get mine in few weeks an will confirm that information.

Fabrice
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 12:51 PM
Registered User
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jan 2005
66 Posts
any input on the ka6 ?

i do want it to float
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Last edited by electro212; Apr 18, 2005 at 12:57 PM.
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 01:45 PM
Registered User
Florida
Joined Nov 2004
358 Posts
Hi electro

The KA6 and the ASK18 are great planes. The 1/4 scale version of them have 3.8m and 4.2m respectivly. Both are great floaters and perfrom realy well in days with little lift.

I personally had a Roke ASK18 4.2 meters and until I sold it was a great plane got me many hours of joy, very easy to fly and THE thermo sniffer.

I still have my Multiplex KA6 3.8 meters and it is a great plane floats realy well and has alittle more penetration than the ASK 18. It is very forgiving and a very good looking plane.

Saludos,
Landi
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 04:01 PM
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El Dorado Hills, California, U.S.A.
Joined Mar 2000
550 Posts
What to get....

Craig,

How are your flying skills on a four function model?

What kind of 2 meter planes do you have ? are they the racer type? or the floater type?

The reason I ask theses question, I see so many guys get into these "Glass Slipper" type gliders with out having the the foundation to fly four or five function "Uncoupled".
The pilots that have the foundation will not make these tipical "Tip stall" turns and dorked landing because they do know how to use the rudder independently.
These scale gliders are all rudder control at low speeds.

I too was in your shoes 10 years ago, I bought a 4 meter ASK21, tip stalled
and nearly destroyed(I rebuilt the plane one year later) the whole plane - My heart sank to the ground when that happened.

The next month I got a four function Glow Plane and flew it every day for two months.
Very grueling experince, went through 10 gallons of fuel and about 20 to 30 props.

I would stay under 4 meter and would get something with out flaps for the sake of simplicity, but a flaped model can be used very effectively very light lift days with the "Rudder".

hope that helps,

Martin Vargas
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Old Apr 18, 2005, 04:54 PM
Scale Nerd!
Wight's Avatar
Ireland
Joined Jul 2002
234 Posts
Seeing you're asking for something that can be winched and towed, I assume this is going to be for flat field flying as oppossed to slope flying.

all the models you list are very high aspect ratio. At 3m span you're going to have a very narrow chord wing. This means less efficiency. (Reynolds no.) These would all make super slope planes at 3m span, but the'yll be pretty dissapointing on the flat. I'd say 4 metre is a minimum for nice flat field flying with these prototypes.

If you want to go 3m, go for something "old school". It doesn't have to be a stick and rib built-up kit, you could go for a 3m Ka-6 (Roedell do a lovely 3.2m foam wing/glass fuse one which I have waiting to be built.) or something of this nature. You're getting much more wing area for your 3m span, and more importantly a deeper chord, and thus better Reynolds number. Basically you need a lower spaect ratio wing at this span to get a decent flat-field flyer. It'll also be less of a handful, and make for a realistic "step-up" to scale stuff.
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Old Apr 19, 2005, 05:37 AM
James
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Australia, NSW, North Narrabeen
Joined Nov 2004
331 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro212
I Don't Know What To Get

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greeting one and all

i have a short list of sailplanes i am looking at and would like some input.

here they are

DG 600 molded

DUO Discus molded

DG 505


i have had 2 2meter sailplanes before and want to get something that will like being towed and can do a winch as well
also and dealers you can point me too as well

thank you

craig
craig,

I was in the same boat as you. I have had a few 2-2.5m balsa crafts but never anything in glass.

I looked around and spoke with a number of manufacturers. I ended up buying a HF DG-1000 due to one thing, PRICE.

I figured it was good value for a low priced full molded model. If I crash it, it won't be the end of the world. Maybe in a year of so, once I have mastered this I will move up to an expensive hi-quality LET model.

All the best in your choice.

James
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Old Apr 20, 2005, 08:24 AM
Registered User
Lancaster Pa
Joined Jan 2005
66 Posts
thank you everyone for your input


craig
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