Mini-Review Hacker A20-22L v. Torque 22T/930

[Dr Kiwi]

A comparison of performance - nothing else!

Alright guys - "you pays your money and you takes your choice!"

For these two motors there is nothing in it. The construction and machining quality of both is superb. They run smoothly, they don't get hot unless one takes them close to, or over, the limit. They weigh and cost pretty much the same. They are different colors, but that's about it!

Do you want to view the world through "Rose-colored" spectacles (Torque) or do you prefer the "Royal Purple" (Hacker)?

Here are performance tables for the Torque 22T/930Kv and the Hacker A20-22L, and graph of watts/thrust for 7x7 Aeronaut; 8x4, 9x5, 10x6 GWS HD; and 9x6 APC SF. Sorry, the graph gets a bit complicated - but you'll figure it out! Also, in the data tables, a couple of runs of 10x4.7 APC SF at 9v and 10v (I didn't dare do 11v) since that is the prop used in Hackers Spec Sheet.

A (serious) word of warning - the Hacker Spec Sheet says that with the 10x4.7 APC SF you'll draw 12.30A on 9v, and 14.30A on 10v - the numbers I got (15.15A/17.15A) are ~20% higher, and BOTH are over the maximum allowable amp draw. This is odd, because for the 26M the Hacker numbers were pretty much spot on!

Cheers, Phil

Edit: I have corrected the numbers for the Hacker 22L with the 10x4.7 APC SF and posted the correct table.

[10Thumbs]

This and your other Torque vs. Hacker tests seem to indicate that these motors are probably made at the same factory and have just minor differences in construction that are not really affecting performance much. Both come with radial mounts included, so no difference there either. I guess it pretty much does come down to color or maybe retailer preference.

[Dr Kiwi]

Convergent evolution applies here. Though they may be made by very different people in very different factories, the bottom line is they perform on a par! As I said - Rose or Purple - both are very sophisticated, even Royal, colors! Choose whichever suits your fancy.

[EdMan]

I would like to run a 11x4.7 on of these motors. Could the motor handle this size prop, and what do you think it would do to the amp draw?
Thanks,
EdMan

[KillerAir]

Dr. Kiwi pick a color is right wow. Very well done, thanks. Any chance of testing an 11x3.8, and that 9x6sf what a pig on the current.

Killer

[Dr Kiwi]

Firstly an apology - it will not have escaped your attention that earlier I duplicated the numbers for the 10x4.7 APC SF - those were for the Torque, but I have now put the correct Hacker numbers in!


I could try the 11x3.8 (just got one in the mail yesterday), and, very tentatively, the 11x4.7 - but I'll bet both are too much even at 10v on the PS (9.9v at the ESC which pretty much equates to a loaded 3s pack)!

Cheers, Phil

Edit: I just tried the 11x3.8 APC SF: Even 8.9v took it over the 14A limit, and on 9.9v it pulled:

9.9v, 18.15A, 179W, 6870rpm, 24.7mph, 1036g, 36.48oz, 5.79g/W

I tried to run it on 11v on the PS (10.9v at the ESC), and it was drawing over 20A when it abruptly shut down - whether that was an over-current protection in the motor or the Phoenix 25 ESC I know not - but I figured that it was enough to tell me to give up! The motor had gone from 11C ambient , only to 40C after 250mAh used, so it wasn't an overheated motor which caused the shut-down. If your 3s pack only delivers 9.5v or so under 15-18A load, then you may get away with the 11x3.8, if you only use short bursts of WOT.

An 11x4.7APC SF would be too ridiculous.

[kyna]

Dear Dr. Kiwi,

Thank you for taking the time to provide this valuable information. There is one point however, that may have been over looked by your testing.

Hacker Brushless USA has been involved with brushless motor sales and distribution since the 1990's. We have a proven and reliable customer service/repair deptartment. We realize there are many great motors out there, but without the proper customer support behind them, then their value may be limited.

We at Hacker Brushless USA know that it is important to not only provide a high quality product but, to also ensure that the customer recieves the best possible customer service with that product. We have a full time staff that is knowlegable in numerous applications and is available Monday-Friday 8:00-4:30pm. When you buy a Hacker Brushless Motor, you are not only getting a proven Championship motor system, but you are also getting a dedicated support team with it.

Best Regards,

Kyna Veatch
Office Manager
Hacker Brushless USA

[KillerAir]

This is absolutely true! I had the x20 controller purchased with the 20-20L, bad bec on the controller, returned it and had it replaced with a a new one.
Thank You HackerUSA

Killer

[landru]

Hi Kyna,

As you have seen, the new Hacker outrunners are getting a lot of attention here on Ezone. I think that Dr. Kiwi's results indicate that the attention is well-deserved.

I wonder if your company has motor resistance and no-load amperage figures that you can share with the curious?

Andrew

[kyna]

Dear Andrew,

At this time Mr. Hacker has not published the motor resistance and no-load amperage figures. However, we will contact him to see if he will be willing to release that information.

Kyna Veatch
Office Manager
Hacker Brushless USA

[landru]

Kyna, Thank you.

Andrew

[Dr Kiwi]

Hi Kyna,

As a career research scientist and educator, I follow the advice I always give my students - in applying the "scientific method" as rigidly as I can, I am trying be as impartial as possible, and to simply let the numbers speak for themselves.

Other than by superficial visual inspection, I really can make no assessment of the relative quality (and probable longevity) of any of the motors I buy, beg or borrow for testing. I can recognize superb machining when I see it, and I can get a feel for the fit and finish of vital components such as bearings and shafts, but beyond that "quality and suitability" depend upon my own simplistic assessment of a minimal number of performance parameters.

Hacker has an enviable reputation for quality, and I am sure your customer service is outstanding. It is to be hoped that, if they do not already do so, others following your lead, will be inspired to provide equal, or better, products and service.

Cheers, Phil

[iva]

Hi Phil,

what timing mode you were using on your PH25 during the tests?
Thanks,

Zoran

[Dr Kiwi]

Originally Posted by iva

Hi Phil,

what timing mode you were using on your PH25 during the tests?
Thanks,

Zoran

I believe that I set it on low advance, but according to what I've read, no matter what I set it on, the PH25 is automatically going to override that and use high advance with an outrunner anyway!

I'd appreciate clarification of this!

[Blackhawk3D]

So would the Hacker/Torque 20-22L running an APC 10x4.7 be good for a ~13-16oz foamy with TP1320 batts? I have a 3DFoamy Katana S that I modified for full fuse and I want to use one of these on it.