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Old May 12, 2010, 01:46 PM
The Kid
Thekid3418's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,587 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
Please take video of that first flight!
..a
Here you go.

Quick and Dirty Siren Video (0 min 49 sec)


Its not quite as fast as I expected, but it maintains its energy very well at 58oz. It is still a peach to launch, or so i've been told.

This flight was not without its trials. I am having serious issues with one of the aileron servos locking in the "down" position. This caused a couple scares. Tonight i'm going to remove some of the extension that I had temporarily fixed with electric tap. I think this was shorting out causing issues. Also, the set-screw on the spinner came loose just enough to let the spinner twist, but not to come off. I believe this was causing the strange surging that can be heard throughout the video. To fix that I put a dab of loctite on the screw (wasn't sure whether I should do that before or not?) and tightened it extra hard!

The best part is, I am VERY happy with the performance. I don't think I will want to put more power in (though never say never), but I do think the airframe could take a little more. It is much smoother at the higher weight, but still has the shocking vertical and all the noise i've come to love.

Kid
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Old May 12, 2010, 01:47 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,854 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thekid3418 View Post
This is where you are mistaken. The true hotliners (2kW or more) run with geared inrunners, and are usually geared steeply (from 5.2:1 all the way up to 8:1 or slightly more). With the exception of a few props, very few turn over 10k RPM. One exception would be the RFM 16x17 Wide, which does its best work at just around 10k-10.5k RPM. Everything else is a much bigger prop in the 17-18" range turning at around 8-9k RPM, so as to not over-rev the motor.

For example, my model is at 1600W (or today in the cold 1520W) and turns just over 8k RPM. Much lower then the ratings by even Aeronaut. And RFM is certainly stronger then that, or so I suspect.

Kid
Throughout this whole experience I have come to the realization of what I want and what I can get out of a model like the Siren.

What I want:

A 36mm inrunner on a small prop that can fly a 60"-70" hotliner like a pylon. While this proposed setup could fly it like a pylon, I would use it for both speed and soaring with power off.

I now understand the capabilites of folders and will not be going with one in the future.

I will probably end up going with the Hawk F5B from i-care that I was buying in the first place.

From there, the Mega 22/30/2 or the ARC 36-55-1.5 should fit the bill with a 7" prop on 4S.

I have some comparing and research to do but this is what I really want.

I probably would have had it with the Siren, but I know I can push the Hawk a little harder and the wing is built the way I would expect.

Thanks for the helps, tips, and criticism over the past few months. I now know a little about these types of planes.

One thing for sure, I had fun with the Siren and I find the sleeker, better built hotliners very intriguing. Easy to see!!!! That's the difference for me.
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Old May 12, 2010, 01:54 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Then the Siren is not the model for you. It is too draggy to be flown fast on a smaller prop pylon style.
..a
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Old May 12, 2010, 02:39 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,854 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
Then the Siren is not the model for you. It is too draggy to be flown fast on a smaller prop pylon style.
..a
What would you recommend Andy? Are you familiar with the Hawk from i-care? It is similar to the WIlco, and Tiger. I obviously need a tough bird but at a reasonable price. When I say pylon, I'm keeping in mind the wingspan. I mean pushing to 100mph or a little over. Nothing crazy, I can live with doing that with only my 30" models.
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Old May 12, 2010, 03:03 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Understood, many hotliners can be flown that way but the siren is draggy compared to many hotliners..

I don't keep up with the flood of more recent models but the bandit and nike would, from my limited experience, be better and yet still affordable - both are more durable - they would be the next step up from a Siren. There may be others, but again, I'm not the most experienced..
..a
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Old May 12, 2010, 03:10 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1242337
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Old May 12, 2010, 07:57 PM
The frigin Catalina wine mixer
flightmare's Avatar
USA, CA, Buena Park
Joined Oct 2006
599 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thekid3418 View Post
Here you go.

http://vimeo.com/11689542

Its not quite as fast as I expected, but it maintains its energy very well at 58oz. It is still a peach to launch, or so i've been told.

This flight was not without its trials. I am having serious issues with one of the aileron servos locking in the "down" position. This caused a couple scares. Tonight i'm going to remove some of the extension that I had temporarily fixed with electric tap. I think this was shorting out causing issues. Also, the set-screw on the spinner came loose just enough to let the spinner twist, but not to come off. I believe this was causing the strange surging that can be heard throughout the video. To fix that I put a dab of loctite on the screw (wasn't sure whether I should do that before or not?) and tightened it extra hard!

The best part is, I am VERY happy with the performance. I don't think I will want to put more power in (though never say never), but I do think the airframe could take a little more. It is much smoother at the higher weight, but still has the shocking vertical and all the noise i've come to love.

Kid
Nice clean setup Kid..
good power,not too crazy,manageable..
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Old May 13, 2010, 12:08 AM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,854 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flightmare View Post
Nice clean setup Kid..
good power,not too crazy,manageable..
Plane looks good. Background looks like Michigan. Bad memories.
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Old May 13, 2010, 11:41 AM
The Kid
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Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,587 Posts
Yes, the weather has been miserable here for the last couple weeks. Always grey, always raining. Its been a real bummer, so I try to get out at any break in the rain. Also, its been cold, today is supposed to be 50F, yesterday was 45!

This weekend the weather is supposed to clear up and its supposed to be in the low 70s. Just in time for our clubs electric fly-in! Time to introduce them to the world of high performance electrics i'm sure i'll get run off the flightline by noon, haha

Kid
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Old May 17, 2010, 10:29 PM
The Kid
Thekid3418's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,587 Posts
Since the time of the video with the noticeable surging I have put 4 flights on my Siren. It flies very nicely, and the exit speed at the top of the climb is very high. A climb of 5 seconds is all that is needed for crane-your-neck type altitudes. Average motor time is 5 seconds, with gliding of ~30 seconds in between.

My one full recorded flight so far lasted 13.5 minutes, used 1.75Ah our of a 3Ah pack, and consisted of 27 climbs! This plane is much different then my other e-models, as they all fly for a few minutes and then must land. I would speculate the Siren had the longest flights of any model at the meet, with the exception of one gentleman flying a Super Ava.

The one change I plan on trying is switching back to an Aeronaut 14x12. I'm starting to think it will be worth it to loose some exit speed in favor of initial acceleration. The RFM Slim prop just doesn't have the bite I was expecting. But it sure hauls once it gets going! If my idea is confirmed, i'll probably shop for an RFM 15x15, as it is the closest match to the 14.5x14 that is a none-slim prop.

Kid
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Old May 18, 2010, 01:21 PM
Registered User
tarrigo's Avatar
USA, CA, Laguna Niguel
Joined Jun 2005
90 Posts
I put the engine below in my Siren. Haven't flown it yet. Still have to balance it, but wondering if anyone has used this engine before and if you think it will be enough to make it work. I use a 54 amp speed control and a 3 cell 2100 mah Lipo. Is gearbox necessary?


KMS 380/20 Quantum I/R Brushless Motor
The KMS Quantum 380/20 I/R Brushless Motor replaces "380" to "480" motors and usually runs a gearbox.

Specs:

Nearest AXI Equivalent: NA
Diameter: 28 mm
Length: 48 mm
Stator Size: NA
NiCd/NiMH cells: 4-12
LiPo Cells: 2-4
IO Amps: 0.7
Turns: 20
KV/RPM: 2066
Max Cont Current: 15a
Max Current: 21a
Max Efficiency: NA
Resistance: 59 mohm
Shaft Dia: 3.17 mm
Weight: 129 g
Bearings: 2
Poles: 2
ESC Timing Degrees: 5-10 (Low)
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Old May 18, 2010, 01:38 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
You will absolutely need a gearbox for that motor in the Siren.
..a
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Old May 19, 2010, 09:41 PM
The Kid
Thekid3418's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,587 Posts
I got a flight in with the 14x12 today. It wasn't what I expected. It made much more noise (which did sound cool!), and offered slightly more initial kick. But the speed at the top of the climb was much lower, and it resulted in lower climbs overall for the same throttle time. I've yet to analyze the power consumption, but I suspect it should still be around 1500-1600W.

All in all, it was a fun test. But I will definately be diverting back to the RFM 14.5x14. One plus side, I solved my aileron lockout issue. The connection inside the wing was loose. This has since been pulled and replaced by a 30" extension. Hopefully this solves the problems!

Kid
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Old May 19, 2010, 10:31 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,854 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thekid3418 View Post
I got a flight in with the 14x12 today. It wasn't what I expected. It made much more noise (which did sound cool!), and offered slightly more initial kick. But the speed at the top of the climb was much lower, and it resulted in lower climbs overall for the same throttle time. I've yet to analyze the power consumption, but I suspect it should still be around 1500-1600W.

All in all, it was a fun test. But I will definately be diverting back to the RFM 14.5x14. One plus side, I solved my aileron lockout issue. The connection inside the wing was loose. This has since been pulled and replaced by a 30" extension. Hopefully this solves the problems!

Kid
I should have my Siren back soon. I think it will be for sale if anyone is interested. Brand new fuse, wing is in perfect condition with HS65HB's in place. I also have the same servo for the elevator.

Basically a brande new Siren with servos.
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Old May 20, 2010, 10:22 PM
September 2010
Outback Joe's Avatar
United States, OR, Lakeview
Joined Oct 2009
332 Posts
Hi All, I have been reading thru this thread and there are lots of choices for a motor and ESC. I want something affordable that will fly the Siren well. I don't want to over power the plane, I want a warmliner.

I do have a Turnigy 35-42C 1100kv - 8.5"x12" folder in my OLY II S and it works great in that but it is a very different ship. Would a similar motor of this size and KV with a 40 to 60 amp ESC work well in the Siren? Or am I just looking at disappointment with this type of setup? Have the Turnigy motors worked in this ship or are they lacking and not a good choice. Any help would be great.
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