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Old May 06, 2010, 09:18 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,818 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmorrow View Post
Thank you all for the replies on my thoughts and questions.

I do have several other CC speed constrols, including a 110HV and also an ICE 100. There is also the CC125 as you mentioned.

I pesronally have been very pleased with the HV and ICE speed controls as they have the heatsink on them and tend to run at reasonable temps with some air flowing over them (as will be the case with the Siren with the ducting and the spinner I will be using has front ventilation). I have heard rumors about an ICE 125 becoming available in the near future....it would be the perfect answer here as the ICE 160HV is a huge monster (using it in one of my electric Super Cubs I use for aerotowing).

I also have to look at the possibility of the 35c 3s 3300mAh packs (or very similar rating). I was trying to stay with the smaller 35c 3s 2600mAh pack to keep the overall weight down on the plane. Hoping to get it to stay up for a while if I can find some thermals, plus I have always found keeping the weight down can help considerably with many of the flight charateristics.

Thank you again and looking forward to sharing how it goes as I get it together over the next few days here.......also trying to get set for the JR Aerotow coming up in a month and make sure the fleet is ready for travel.

Robert
I removed the battery tray and I still cant get anything in there over a 4S 2200mah. The motor wires and esc are in the way where ever I stuff them.
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Old May 06, 2010, 09:46 PM
The Kid
Thekid3418's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,586 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmorrow View Post
Thank you all for the replies on my thoughts and questions.

I do have several other CC speed constrols, including a 110HV and also an ICE 100. There is also the CC125 as you mentioned.

I pesronally have been very pleased with the HV and ICE speed controls as they have the heatsink on them and tend to run at reasonable temps with some air flowing over them (as will be the case with the Siren with the ducting and the spinner I will be using has front ventilation). I have heard rumors about an ICE 125 becoming available in the near future....it would be the perfect answer here as the ICE 160HV is a huge monster (using it in one of my electric Super Cubs I use for aerotowing).

I also have to look at the possibility of the 35c 3s 3300mAh packs (or very similar rating). I was trying to stay with the smaller 35c 3s 2600mAh pack to keep the overall weight down on the plane. Hoping to get it to stay up for a while if I can find some thermals, plus I have always found keeping the weight down can help considerably with many of the flight charateristics.

Thank you again and looking forward to sharing how it goes as I get it together over the next few days here.......also trying to get set for the JR Aerotow coming up in a month and make sure the fleet is ready for travel.

Robert
That is a very nice setup, and Andy has some great advice. Personally, I would be eyeing the 13x11 Aeronaut blades, which should be around 650-700W on 3s. You could also run a 14x12, as your motor seems similar to mine, though slightly lower kv and higher gear ratio meaning less amps for you. I think that would be a good match for you!

I think you'll like it more with the 3s-3300, my Siren I feel is much more stable with a little extra weight. I only flew it once on a small battery and there was some dutch roll. Nothing unmanageable, but noticeable.

Also, I have easily fit 5s-2500 HC cells, which take up a lot of space! I have some new 3000mah 40C batteries that should fit like a glove up to 6s, but I can confirm that later. For batteries, you have about 44-45mm of width to work with, and about 38mm of height (though this is cutting it close). You have nearly unlimited length, so your battery options are endless!

Best of luck,
Kid
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Old May 07, 2010, 11:28 PM
The Kid
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Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,586 Posts
Well I got a chance to fit the batteries tonight. First of all, the way they solder the discharge leads on makes no sense, as it takes up a lot of space. So every battery was disected and resoldered with the leads facing in.

The bad news: 6s-3000 doesnt fit. Its about 1mm too tall. I havent messed with it much, so i'm still going to try to squeeze it, but we'll see.

The good news: 5s-3000 fit PERFECTLY! This still should be an over abundence of battery on tap for the kind of power the Siren!

Over the next week ill break them in and see just how well they perform compared to other batteries.

Kid
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Old May 09, 2010, 06:24 AM
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Stamford, CT
Joined Jan 2005
415 Posts
Well, based on the help I have gotten a good start on the project here.

I worked on the electronics yesterday and also had a chance to pick up some batteries for determining the size abilities of the fuselage.

Looks like the Hyperion 35c 2600mAh 3s and 4s are a perfect fit into the battery tray just behind the motor. I also have a Hyperion 35c 3300mAh 3s and 4s, they are thin enough height wise to sit ontop of the battery tray under the wing.

The motor and speed control are all wired with connectors now. 3.5mm bullets of the motor to the speed control (I can make some short extension wires and easily extend the length to adjust for the speed control placement). Deans ultra connectors for the batteries to the speed control.

Based on various comments I have worked on the rogramming of the speed control, especially the ramp up of power and the ramp down of the brake. I don't want to take out the motor mount or cause instantaneous torque on the application of power or brake.

Next step ( which won't be today !) is to get the motor mounted into the fuselage. I have some resin impregnated carbonfiber sheets in various thicknesses (1mm, 1.5mm, and 2mm). The 1.5mm seems just about right, so I am using this to make a pair of nose rings for the motor. The inside ring will have a larger diameter cutout for the gearbox to go through and the outside ring will be made for the motor to actually bolt to. I'll sandwich the ply nose ring preinsatlled between my new CF rings using either 30 min resin or JB weld (long cure), making a fillit inside the fuse on the interior ring. This should hold the motor well. After these are installed and cleaned up a bit I will machine in cooling holes through the rings to allw airflow from the nose through the fuselage (I have an aluminum spinner that is designed to allow airflow through the tip of the nose, I think it is called a Turbo Spinner, available from Esprit).

I have a series of Aeronaut props now, from 13" to 15" to do some trials. I'll get the motor installed along with the electronics and use the data logging of the ICE 75 to track the output (watts, amps, etc). I am looking at having the system work at between 40-60 amps (around 400-600 watts) max. The batteries are 35c continuous and 60c burst so even with the 2600mAh pack I should have the theoretical ability of 91 amps. Flight time of course will be somewhat limited.

I will be using an aluminum turbo spinner on the nose from Esprit models, it has an opening to allow air to pass though the nosecone into the cooling ducts on the motor mount. The power system will hopefully remain cool enough via the ducting on the fuselage and the airflow throgh the nose cone. I'll be able to check the temp of the speed control via the data logging to verify this after initial trials.

Onto the motor install and then the flight control installs this week. Hopefully it will be ready for first flights next weekend.
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Old May 09, 2010, 10:41 AM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,818 Posts
I have been having a blast with my 36mm inrunner and APC 8x4. HAULS BUTT!!!

I just ordered an 8x5 folder so I can soar longer. Right now I have a windmill airbrake. With only 4 sec burst of throttle, that Turnigy inrunner comes down cool. I flew for about 12 minutes last night. I will get a video soon.

I am really liking the smaller prop, and it keeps things cheap and simple.

After loving this setup, I actually searched and found others running 8" and 9" props on similar planes.
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Old May 10, 2010, 05:12 PM
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Stamford, CT
Joined Jan 2005
415 Posts
The wonderful luxury of being involved with large sailplane and so many other models over the years is a very well stocked inventory in my shop: I found a pai of JR DS168 Thin Wing Servos that I'll use for the wings and also a JR DS285MG High Speed servo I can use for the elevator.

The DS168's have 46.6-52.5 oz/in and the DS285MG has 17/19 oz/in in torque. Should be adequate for this model based on what I have seen in the specs and servo requirments. I will probably program the speed control BEC for 6.0v for the faster servo speed and higher torque.

I still have to decide on the receiver. I have several possibilities in the 6 channel DSM2 series that are full range. I will have to get the attenna (sp ?) out of the fuse through leads so they have full reception.

Overkill I am certain, but I have always been a strong advocate of using electronics and other parts that go beyond meeting the specs required.

Progress is being made on the Siren, I have the rough carbonfiber motor mounts almost ready for trial fit and install tonight. Then the rest is pretty straight forward.

Looks like the motor and speed control combination should fit perfictly with the batteries just behind the motor and the speed control behind the battery pack. It should have good airflow over the whole electronic package also, which will be important with the potential heat from the motor/battery/speed control system.

Back to the shop tonight to see how is goes here. I will take some pics of the progress and post them as it moves forward.
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Old May 10, 2010, 07:20 PM
The frigin Catalina wine mixer
flightmare's Avatar
USA, CA, Buena Park
Joined Oct 2006
599 Posts
RC,
Get a shot of your CF motor mounts...
Where did you acquire the material for them??
Don
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Old May 10, 2010, 08:27 PM
Registered User
rcmorrow's Avatar
Stamford, CT
Joined Jan 2005
415 Posts
Flight: there are various sites that specialze in carbon fiber composites for rc use. Here are a couple I have right off the list:

http://www.acp-composites.com/

http://www.cstsales.com/

ACP is a really great source for materials. There are others also that have a variety of materials and supplies.

I found the 1.5mm resin impregnated cf boards were about the right thickness as compared to the resin/fiberglass template that came with my Hacker motor.

One thing to be very aware of is the care that must be taken when working with carbon fiber and carbon fiber composites.

Alway wear gloves (I like to use nitrile gloves) so that fibers do not go into your skin and enter your bloodstream, also wear a good respirator mask. It doesn't have to have organic vapor filters, but it won't hurt to use one like that (I have a couple different masks that I use while working ith various materials to avoid inhaling dust or fumes). Safety glasses or safety goggles are also very important to wear, being careful not to get dust or fibers into the eyes and also protect from stary materials that may be ejected while working on the materials with drills, saws, etc.

I may be overly cautious, but honestly I think you can't be too careful when working with a variety of materials we use in the models. Many of them have hazards we don't know about or don't watch out for and that can cause very serious health issues later in life.

Hoe this will help.

Bob
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Old May 11, 2010, 10:26 AM
The Kid
Thekid3418's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,586 Posts
I just got everything set up for the new Siren power system. Everything went off without a hitch, and I am very excited about the results

KD-3650-3200
6.7:1 gearbox
ICE 100 Lite
Turnigy 3000mah 40-50C 5s lipo

Works out to 85A and 1550W with cold batteries! The pull is very high, and RPM is right around 8000. Its raining today, so the re-maiden will have to wait for tomorrow.

All the best,
Kid
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Old May 11, 2010, 11:39 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Please take video of that first flight!
..a
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Old May 11, 2010, 03:09 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,818 Posts
Here's my Siren

Turnigy 36-56-1800kv (Direct Drive)
Turnigy 80 amp ESC
Rhino 4S 2150 30C
APC 8x4 (my 8x5 folding prop should be in today)

http://www.youtube.com/user/eoslives.../0/Sr3zZkjI488
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Old May 11, 2010, 07:37 PM
The Kid
Thekid3418's Avatar
Detroit, MI
Joined Dec 2007
2,586 Posts
I weighed my Siren, just to see where I am at.

Ready to fly= 1650g or 58oz
Batteries= 17.1oz

Power= 1620W with warm batteries

W/lb=443

She feels like a pig, until you run it up and see just how much power it has. This thing should haul butt, though I don't know how entertaining the video will be as there is a lot of down time, with 5 good seconds of pleasure (thats what she said )

Kid
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Old May 11, 2010, 08:21 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,818 Posts
Well that was fun. First flight with the folding 8x5 prop and the firewall shot out in mid flight. After an hour of searching, i never found my spinner/prop/motor. What a bummer. My continued woes with Great Planes products. All with an 8" prop and no brake. If you guys remember I stated I did not want to run a brake because I was afraid of the firewall ripping out. Go figure.
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Old May 11, 2010, 08:25 PM
Registered User
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Stamford, CT
Joined Jan 2005
415 Posts
john, did you add any resin or resin microballoon mixture to reinforce the firewall before setting it up for your system ?
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Old May 11, 2010, 08:27 PM
You down with EPP?
johnnyrocco123's Avatar
Houston, Tx
Joined May 2009
6,818 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmorrow View Post
john, did you add any resin or resin microballoon mixture to reinforce the firewall before setting it up for your system ?
No, but I was not pulling monster watts. In fact I was running it on a 3S 2200 today.
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