Great Planes Siren Hotliner ARF Review - Page 2

e-modler · May 19, 2005, 02:45 PM

The Siren doesn't use or need any aileron differential. If you read the thread from the beginning - part 1 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281738 and this being part 2 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330518 - a person or two started out trying it but quickly changed back to no differential. It is stated in the plans / instructions that none is needed.

Andy W · May 31, 2005, 10:35 AM

None is needed, but it does seem to benefit from it if you have the capability. I started at 50% and haven't found a need to change it.
..a

Bill Baker · Jul 09, 2005, 12:14 PM

good review, and I will refer to it during the building of my Siren which I received only yesterday. On the elevator servo, I likely will use the method of servo attachment recommended by this review as this is my first carbon fiber fuselage. However I am not surprised by the failure of epoxy, as it is brittle and the carbon fiber or fiberglass is more flexable. I would more likely use a silicone adhesive such as Permatex Clear RTV Silicone adhesive sealant. It is the same thing as GE Clearseal.. I have used these with good sucess in fibergalss fuselages as well as wood. You do not want these products to come into contact with the electronics due to corrosive nature of the solvent, but I have had no trouble with the solvents penetrating the servo case. This method really helps in models with limited room for servo mounting. The material can be cut loose from the servo when needed, and retains its rubbery consistency, making for some shock /vibration protection.

Andy W · Jul 09, 2005, 02:48 PM

I've used silicone myself, but had it come loose. I usually use GOOP for securing servos..
..a

hamcigar · Aug 24, 2005, 12:30 AM

Has anyone ran the airplane in stock form with a brushed motor? All my airplanes are brushless but this will be my first hotliner. I just want to make sure its somthing i want to invest alot of cash into and these motor esc and battery packages are not cheap for this model. Has anyone ran it with a brushed t-610 motor and how was the preformance?

soholingo · Aug 24, 2005, 09:39 AM

There is information in the other threads on the signal. Arbo had a signal and flew it with a brushed motor. Performance was acceptable to him. It would not acceptable to me... Its worth getting a brushless setup for this plane.

Arbo · Aug 24, 2005, 10:12 AM

Yes, I flew one on brushed power. Not the GP setup, but a Kyosoho Magnetic Mayhem. On 7 old 1700mah NiCads. It flew fine. No speed demon, but I'm not sure even a big brushless system would make it a speed demon. I could climb up and thermal around a bit. But as noted by some, the plane just doesn't have the energy retention you'd expect.

The most impressive flying I ever saw it do was on our local slope. With 40+ MPH winds and loads of slope lift, it got in it's groove.

brittcrowell · Sep 28, 2005, 09:53 PM

I got my Siren kit back when they first came out early this year. Well after moving half way across the country and getting married, i'm ready to get it flying. I orginaly got it because I wanted a powered glider that I could go fly on the front range of colorado. that would be eaiser just to go fly compaired to getting all my heli crap together.
So now I'm back to the sticky point that i was at eirler this year with the servos.
I got some Futaba S3108 microservos (suggested by tower hobbies) Well the damn servo horns are so small that I cant put the linkage rod through them.
I havent been able to find some larger servo horns. So what should i do? Just glue some larger pieces of plastic on the existing horn so i can drill a hole that will accept the rod.

I just have a brushed motor so I'll get some video of a brushed motor when I get it in the air.

Britt

Andy W · Sep 28, 2005, 10:02 PM

I would not mess around with the servo arms.. I'd get some larger servos - you're not going to notice the weight..
I didn't see 3108's suggested on Tower's site?
..a

brittcrowell · Sep 28, 2005, 10:13 PM

looks like the say the 3107 now (maybe did then too) but the 3108 are identical (except for th horn maby?)
3107 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDTB5&P=M
3108 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFKZ9&P=0

Humm... what to do, what to do?

Andy W · Sep 29, 2005, 01:12 AM

I noticed the 3107's are in the manual, so you can't be blamed for going with them. Haven't used them myself, so I can't comment on the size of the horns, but perhaps comparing to pics in the manual might help?

The 56's I used for aileron have larger horns than most micro servos, and they worked out well - you can see the size of the horns and that there was ample material for the large hole needed to accomodate the provided pushrod in the pictures in the review. You have to be careful how you set them up, it's a little tricky to get the full range of aileron throw needed for spoileron operation. A 55 was used in the tail, didn't have any issue there..
..a

Andy W · Nov 07, 2005, 12:30 PM

Feedback from a reader here (received by email)..

Quote:

I read your review and got this plane.
It is all you said. I was tired of folding my wings up in my goldberg electra,4 times. I wanted something strong .
I used a 30-3 phasor with 9/6.5 prop.and lipo. I only wanted to use one lipo so I had to match prop with current pull.The thrust wasn\'t really that great but when I flew it , it took off like a rocket. I flew around at about 1/3 throttle. I haven\'t put it thru its paces yet but can\'t wait. What a plane, I also took your sugesstion on the air brakes. I approached at about 12 feet hit the brakes and landed in about 75 feet. Wow... It flys fast.. Great review and accurate.. I used good double sided tape on the the tail servo and it seem to hold fine.
Thanks for the information.. Good job.

Quote:

I used this motor because I had it in my goldberg, the motor fit perfectly. I used a 3cell 2250 lipo . I had to cut throttle atv down to 80 per cent to get a max pull of 27 amps. I had to add about 3oz of wieght to the nose to get it to balance, with the battery pushed as far forward as i could. I use the suggested cg but on first flight had to add a lot of up elevator to fly level with power off.
I am moving the battery back some for next flight. It will fit right in the forward cut out...The servo covers wouldn't fit so I had to cut out the hump a little, not bad though

sanman55 · Nov 18, 2005, 02:31 PM

forgive me if this shows up twice. I am having trouble with the cg. I flew at the recommended cg and had to give a lot of up trim. I have now moved the cg back to within 1/16 of its limit and still have to give some up trim.
Should I keep moving it back, even if its beyound the recommended cg? It flys very well and lands great, with air brakes. I just don't understrand why I have to move the cg so far back. Is it normal to have to give up trim?
I have flown it upside down and the nose fall there too.
Thanks for your time. Sanford, ccrc

Andy W · Nov 18, 2005, 02:36 PM

Sounds more like an incidence problem?
..a

soholingo · Nov 18, 2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy W

Sounds more like an incidence problem?
..a

Andy,

Remember that the CG is incorrect in the manual...

Sanman,

Slide the CG back until you can fly without uptrim in the model, it will reward you with a pretty decent flight.

Jay

May 19, 2005, 02:45 PM	#16
e-modler Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers Ga. Posts: 55	The Siren doesn't use or need any aileron differential. If you read the thread from the beginning - part 1 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281738 and this being part 2 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330518 - a person or two started out trying it but quickly changed back to no differential. It is stated in the plans / instructions that none is needed. Last edited by e-modler; May 19, 2005 at 03:08 PM.

Jul 09, 2005, 12:14 PM	#18
Bill Baker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 8	servo attachment good review, and I will refer to it during the building of my Siren which I received only yesterday. On the elevator servo, I likely will use the method of servo attachment recommended by this review as this is my first carbon fiber fuselage. However I am not surprised by the failure of epoxy, as it is brittle and the carbon fiber or fiberglass is more flexable. I would more likely use a silicone adhesive such as Permatex Clear RTV Silicone adhesive sealant. It is the same thing as GE Clearseal.. I have used these with good sucess in fibergalss fuselages as well as wood. You do not want these products to come into contact with the electronics due to corrosive nature of the solvent, but I have had no trouble with the solvents penetrating the servo case. This method really helps in models with limited room for servo mounting. The material can be cut loose from the servo when needed, and retains its rubbery consistency, making for some shock /vibration protection.

Sep 28, 2005, 09:53 PM	#23
brittcrowell Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wetumpka, Alabama Posts: 2	Servo arm question for Siren. I got my Siren kit back when they first came out early this year. Well after moving half way across the country and getting married, i'm ready to get it flying. I orginaly got it because I wanted a powered glider that I could go fly on the front range of colorado. that would be eaiser just to go fly compaired to getting all my heli crap together. So now I'm back to the sticky point that i was at eirler this year with the servos. I got some Futaba S3108 microservos (suggested by tower hobbies) Well the damn servo horns are so small that I cant put the linkage rod through them. I havent been able to find some larger servo horns. So what should i do? Just glue some larger pieces of plastic on the existing horn so i can drill a hole that will accept the rod. I just have a brushed motor so I'll get some video of a brushed motor when I get it in the air. Britt

Nov 18, 2005, 02:31 PM	#28
sanman55 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: powder springs georgia Posts: 696	siren cg forgive me if this shows up twice. I am having trouble with the cg. I flew at the recommended cg and had to give a lot of up trim. I have now moved the cg back to within 1/16 of its limit and still have to give some up trim. Should I keep moving it back, even if its beyound the recommended cg? It flys very well and lands great, with air brakes. I just don't understrand why I have to move the cg so far back. Is it normal to have to give up trim? I have flown it upside down and the nose fall there too. Thanks for your time. Sanford, ccrc

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May 31, 2005, 10:35 AM	#17
Andy W That sickening crunch.. Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 39,777	None is needed, but it does seem to benefit from it if you have the capability. I started at 50% and haven't found a need to change it. ..a

Jul 09, 2005, 02:48 PM	#19
Andy W That sickening crunch.. Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 39,777	I've used silicone myself, but had it come loose. I usually use GOOP for securing servos.. ..a

Aug 24, 2005, 12:30 AM	#20
hamcigar Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 113	Has anyone ran the airplane in stock form with a brushed motor? All my airplanes are brushless but this will be my first hotliner. I just want to make sure its somthing i want to invest alot of cash into and these motor esc and battery packages are not cheap for this model. Has anyone ran it with a brushed t-610 motor and how was the preformance?

Aug 24, 2005, 09:39 AM	#21
soholingo Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Laurel, MD Posts: 12,038	There is information in the other threads on the signal. Arbo had a signal and flew it with a brushed motor. Performance was acceptable to him. It would not acceptable to me... Its worth getting a brushless setup for this plane.

Aug 24, 2005, 10:12 AM	#22
Arbo curmudgeon in training Join Date: May 2000 Location: La Villa Strangiato Posts: 6,671	Yes, I flew one on brushed power. Not the GP setup, but a Kyosoho Magnetic Mayhem. On 7 old 1700mah NiCads. It flew fine. No speed demon, but I'm not sure even a big brushless system would make it a speed demon. I could climb up and thermal around a bit. But as noted by some, the plane just doesn't have the energy retention you'd expect. The most impressive flying I ever saw it do was on our local slope. With 40+ MPH winds and loads of slope lift, it got in it's groove.

Sep 28, 2005, 10:02 PM	#24
Andy W That sickening crunch.. Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 39,777	I would not mess around with the servo arms.. I'd get some larger servos - you're not going to notice the weight.. I didn't see 3108's suggested on Tower's site? ..a

Sep 28, 2005, 10:13 PM	#25
brittcrowell Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wetumpka, Alabama Posts: 2	looks like the say the 3107 now (maybe did then too) but the 3108 are identical (except for th horn maby?) 3107 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDTB5&P=M 3108 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFKZ9&P=0 Humm... what to do, what to do?

Sep 29, 2005, 01:12 AM	#26
Andy W That sickening crunch.. Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 39,777	I noticed the 3107's are in the manual, so you can't be blamed for going with them. Haven't used them myself, so I can't comment on the size of the horns, but perhaps comparing to pics in the manual might help? The 56's I used for aileron have larger horns than most micro servos, and they worked out well - you can see the size of the horns and that there was ample material for the large hole needed to accomodate the provided pushrod in the pictures in the review. You have to be careful how you set them up, it's a little tricky to get the full range of aileron throw needed for spoileron operation. A 55 was used in the tail, didn't have any issue there.. ..a

Nov 18, 2005, 02:36 PM	#29
Andy W That sickening crunch.. Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 39,777	Sounds more like an incidence problem? ..a