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Old Nov 19, 2006, 10:12 PM
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newbe here too .easy glider first plane and crash,but having lots of fun.hope to learn more .
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 03:25 AM
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Good luck with your EZ. There are tons of threads on that plane. If you are having trouble search on easy glider and you wil find them. Do that first as you will find tons of help. But you can start a new thread as well. Either way, we are all here to help you.
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 12:03 AM
jek
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Turning a 4Ch into a 3Ch?

The recommendations and information posted here are very helpful.

One of those recommendations was not to start with a 4Ch that has airlerons but to use elevator and rudder only. Is it appropriate to disconnect the aileron servo (and make sure it is in trim) then fly with only 3Ch? Or is that a problem?
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 07:09 AM
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Jek,

I would not recommend disabling the ailerons on a plane designed for ailerons unless the instructions suggest it.

The issue is not ailerons but the design of the typical aileron plane. Ailerons in fact provide more positive roll control of the plane. Many would argue that the added control gives the student better control of the plane, and I would agree.

However for those who are self teaching that control may be too positive. It is not a question of 3 channels vs. 4 it is about the tendency of the plane to self correct.

Training wheels on a 2 wheel bike restrict your ability to maneuver and can actually cause the bike to tip if turned too fast and too tight. But it is clear that training wheels have been very helpful in teaching new bike riders how to ride. The same with high wing R/E planes.

A high wing R/E plane MUST have significant dihedral in the wings or it can't bank and turn. That dihedral, combined with the high wing, tends to level the plane when you let go of the sticks. Thus the new self training flyer can often recover from a problem by just letting go of the sticks and cutting back on the throttle.

This can be VERY valuable when you are trying to learn orientation and how to fly toward yourself. If the plane gets off angle, you can center the sticks and the plane will tend to level with little or no help from you.

A plane designed for ailerons will tend to have less dihedral in the wings. As such it will tend to be less self correcting. Along the same thinking is that you tend to have to return the aileron planes to level rather than just letting them level out.

It is my opinion that part of the success of the small electric market has been this introduction of self recovering, self correcting planes. This does not mean that the pilot can't crash it, it means that he has that much more of an opportunity to allow the plane to recover itself. This is why I focus on this when I teach. I show them how the plane knows how to fly and that their piloting is often just an irritation to the plane's natural tendency to fly.

One way I have seen new pilots crash one of these planes is to fight the self correcting nature of the plane. The other is to freeze on the sticks and just hold hard rudder and full throttle all the way into the ground. In that case it does not matter what the design is of the plane.

None of this is absolute. This is all a question of degrees and giving the new self training flyer every possible opportunity to succeed. Taking an aileron plane and disabling the ailerons is not an approach I would recommend.

Remember, all of this is targeted at a self trainer. If you have a coach or an instructor this will be much less of an issue as they will help you through the management of the plane in the air.

Also we are talking about degrees. Many aileron planes have dihedral in the wing and some will self level adequately to help that new self trainer through those early stages. However, the high wing R/E planes always behave this way. That is why, as a broad generalization, I recommend high wing R/E/T planes for new self training flyers.

I hope that clarifies the point.
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 11:57 AM
jek
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aejr, you are so very very helpful, thanks.

I have a Park Flyers Cessna 182 and I suspect that the dihedral isn't enough for self training. The same plane comes in a 3Ch and 4Ch configuration and I figured for $20 more to get the 4Ch.

Am going to try it on grass for softer landings.

Thanks again for helping all of us Noobs!
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Old Nov 22, 2006, 12:11 PM
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jek,

I have read both good and not so good on the Parkflyers Cessna 182. The issue is not the plane as much as the wing loading. From what I read, the plane flies very nicely but you have to keep the speed up. It will not float like a PZ Super Cub or an Aerobird Challenger or a Slow Stick. So you have to fly it a bit faster and land it a bit faster than these planes. That also means it needs a bit more room.

I do not speak from personal experience as I have not flown one. I speak from working with pilots who have owned the plane or reading posts from new flyers who decided to set it aside and get something else to start.

Whatever you decided to do, you may find this helpful.

TEST FLIGHT PROCEDURES FOR PARKFLYERS
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

PURPOSE - Here are some quick tips and a "check sheet" for preparing your
parkflyer for flight. If you have an instructor or coach, follow their
recommendations. This list is primarily for someone learning on their own
who
would like some tips, guides and check lists to help them with their early
test flights. Skip a step and you open yourself to problems.

BALANCE THE PLANE - Read the manual to see if you need to balance the plane. Some RTF planes come prebalanced. The T-Hawk, the HobbyZone and ParkZone planes, for example. Be sure to balance the plane to the suggested CG point. If you don't know how to balance a plane, this is the time to ask. Don't try to fly it until you do.

An improperly balanced plane is not likely to fly well and is very likely to
crash! Even some Ready to Fly planes have to be balanced, so check the
manual
for the manufacturers suggestions. In general it is better to be a "little"
nose heavy rather than tail heavy. A nose heavy plane is more stable so you
have a better chance of a smooth first flight session.

WIND - Read the recommendations in the manual. Some planes must only be
flown in dead calm or indoors.

For new pilots, dead calm to 3 MPH is perfect. Otherwise you will not be
flying the plane, you will be fighting the wind.

AT THE FIELD

1) Make sure no one is on your channel BEFORE you turn on your radio. If
there
is another flyer anywhere in sight, go and talk to them BEFORE you turn on
your radio. If you are on 27 MHz you must also be aware of anyone with an
RC car or an RC boat.

If someone is flying on your channel and you turn on your radio, they will
crash! Check first! At our field if you cause someone to crash, you have to
buy them a new plane. That can cost thousands. Check first!

2) Do a range check before the first launch of the day - If you don't know
how
to do a range check, read the manual or ASK! Otherwise you could lose your
plane.

3) Make sure that battery is fully charged just before the launch. Not 3
days ago. Not last week. Last night or today!

4) Make sure all your surfaces are properly aligned and move properly before
you launch. Check the instructions.

Make sure right rudder goes right and up elevator goes up, etc. If you are
not sure, read the instructions. Also make sure your wing is straight!

5) CHECK THE TRIMS! Check the trim slides on the side and below the
stick(s).
They should be in the center. Be sure you have not bumped one out of
position.
A bumped trim can cause the plane to crash. (guess how I know). I do this a
lot throughout the day, so check just before EVERY launch.

6) Always launch and land into the wind - ALWAYS!

7) For hand launches - good firm LEVEL throw - NOT UP! Never throw the plane
upward as it will most likely stall, go nose down and crash. After a few
launches you will know how THIS plane flies.

TEST FLIGHTS

The following is a suggested test flight process for flyers learning on
their
own, primarily in an open field area. If you are at a highly disciplined
runway based site, they may not allow you to follow this procedure. In this
case, you probably have an instructor, follow their guidance. If you are
alone in a field, follow this process.


ALWAYS LAUNCH INTO THE WIND - ALWAYS!


LAUNCH - FLY STRAIGHT - LAND - Don't go for a real flight, this is a test to
see if it goes straight and level. I like to fly straight out and then land
for the fist few tries. I send it out 100-300 feet. This way I get a feel of
how the plane will launch and how it will land.

For ROG launch - Follow the launch procedure in the manual but don't go for
height, go straight out. If you have a hard runway and plane to
rise-off-the-ground - ROG, follow the manual's recommendations.

Hand Launch - Typically you will go to full power, then throw the plane
straight out in a strong but smooth motion. NOT UP- let it get out about
100
feet just keeping it straight. Best if one person throws it and one handle
the controls for the first few. Then both hands are on the radio and you
can see if the wings were kept straight.

Let it climb on its own, or give it a TINY amount of up. Don't pull back
hard on the elevator or it is likely to stall and crash. At about 25 feet
altitude, or about 1/2 tree height, cut the power to 1/4 such that it will
start to come down on its own. Don't force it down with the elevator.

Try to land it still going straight. All you want to do is keep it straight
and level as it starts to climb then as it lands. Cut the power just before
it touches down. Some planes fly at such slow speeds you may have to
completely cut the power to get it to land.

Did it climb out straight? If not, did you throw it level or were the wings
tipped? If the wings are tilted on the throw, the plane will turn toward
the low wing.

Does it glide in nicely for the landing? Do you need power on as you land
or can it glide in? If you do this several times you will know.

Launching and landing are the two most important things you have to do, so
make sure you know how the plane behaves before you attempt anything more. You
will do some walking but that is better than gathering up pieces or watching
your plane fly off into the distance.

On these test flights, try to use the controls as little as possible. If it
is
balanced correctly, and your surfaces are trimmed it should fly straight and
true. If you have to work the sticks a little to keep it straight, that's
OK, but if you are working hard to keep it going straight and level, you may
have
some trim adjustments to do, or your plane is not well balanced or you are
trying to over control it, which is common among inexperienced flyers.

Make those adjustments now. If it flies with the nose sticking up, you are
too tail heavy
or you are giving it too much up elevator. If the wind is blowing it around
a lot, put it away for a calmer day.

The first time I bring a plane to the field I might do 1-5 test flights as
straight out launches and landings. After each I adjust and do it again.
Only
when I am happy that the plane goes straight and flat will I take to the
skies. I may add or remove some balance weight if the plane needs balance
improvement.

I like to adjust my planes at the surfaces so that my normal flight trim
settings on my radio are normally neutral trims. This way I don't have to
worry about setting trims before I fly. It takes time, but it saves problems
later.

Many kits tell you to set your control throws for lower amounts for early
flights. Follow this recommendation. Too much surface movement on an
unfamiliar plane can cause you to over control it. You can always "crank it
up" later.

Once I have done all these things, which might take 10 minutes or it may
take
an hour or two, then and only then would I go for altitude and go around the
field.

After these few test flights I also get a feel for how much stick movement
will give me how much plane movement.

I get to know the plane is right before I send it up. Finding I have a
problem
when I am 200 feet up and climbing and can't control a turn is not a good
thing because now I have to get it down and land it.

I hope this is helpful. Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 06:30 AM
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Thx, ur right, i hold the turn until my plane crashes. Well i dont' have a big flying area too! I have a X-Twin Sports-Flyer, i fly near a swimming pool, and i'm scared the wind, blows, and then... CraSH!!!!! Well if that really happens, my mom would scold me, and i would lose my Christmas present for 2006... I can't find a good place, coz i only fly it in my neighbourhood, i fly at like...say...5 or 6 feet high, and the flying area isnt' that big. I mean really small , with palm trees and a baby playground. Fly behind me and...splash...it floats on water. It happened once, and i throttled it, and it came out of the water. I was lucky it didn't spoil or something like that.

Also, my friend throws my plane up like 1 storey high, then it comes down correctly, then i put on throttle, is it ok? Will the motor spoil?

I hope you reply soon.
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 06:45 AM
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Also, is ur plane a big one or small one? coz mine is 27Mhz Channel A, foam body, no rudder, no elevator, begginner plane. Can see the rudder and elevator, but not cut out coz it's foam. Wingspan from left to right plus body is 30 cm. Body length is 24 cm. Fatness about 2.5 cm. Body without wings is 3 cm. 2 Elevators (back wing) about 14 cm. Rudder height is about 4.5 cm. Tr yto see te hlengths and help me out plz.
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 06:53 AM
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Yep, keep it up ya'll, and it's so good for people like me, newbs in rc planes.
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Old Dec 23, 2006, 07:52 AM
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zyberhell,

What country are you from?
Rather than telling us the size of you plane, why not tell me the brand and model. Sounds like an Air Hogs Aero Ace.
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 03:29 AM
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uh...it's X-Twin, you know, the kid's toys, lol the X-Twin brand, model Sports-Flyer and model Bi-Wing, it's hard to find the model type though, the Bi-Wing is a small plane type, with 2 layers of wings, and Sports-Flyer is the one with 1 layer of wing and has a head that jots out a little...
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyberhell
uh...it's X-Twin, you know, the kid's toys, lol the X-Twin brand, model Sports-Flyer and model Bi-Wing, it's hard to find the model type though, the Bi-Wing is a small plane type, with 2 layers of wings, and Sports-Flyer is the one with 1 layer of wing and has a head that jots out a little...
I suggest you start a discussion thread on this plane. There may be other people out there with the same plane who can help you. Be sure to put the name of the plane in the title.

This thread it about keys to success, not specific planes, so that would be the best thing for you to do.

Good luck!
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 06:15 AM
dmt
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aeajr, I read your tips the other day and one in particular has been helpful to me, the one about staying upwind. As a long-time (but over a decade ago now) professional pilot of powered aircraft, I hadn't particularly thought about the importance of staying upwind with my RC [electric] motor-glider. But your admonition that a beginner should never be downwind made me think. First I reacted strongly against it (for one, the downwind leg of a VFR pattern is pretty much sacrosanct), but then I started to see what you meant.

I'm teaching myself to fly R/C, and had only had two days of flying prior to reading your thread -- and both days had no wind (which is why I picked them to start with). The next time I went out however had a light wind and I kept in mind your advice. I Kept the plane upwind of me and...well, basically, it was just good advice! The plane was always in a comfortable position, and I didn't have to worry about losing power and trying to control the plane downwind of me, maybe trying to do steep turns to stop from losing headway compared to my ground position and thus inadvertantly stalling in a steep bank or whatever.

Very helpful.
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Old Dec 25, 2006, 08:34 AM
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dmt,

Thanks for the post.

Remember that, to a 2 pound model a 10 mph wind is like being up in gail force winds in a small personal aircraft. Under those conditions you wouldn't even fly.
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Old Dec 26, 2006, 06:51 AM
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okie...well, i'm not sure, if there are alot of people using my type...thx anyway...
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