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Old Sep 08, 2006, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeton
So my advice would be, don't let the urge to fly win when there is too much wind and too less space. Think really big when it comes to the available area in which you want to fly your plane. And mind everything else posted in this thread

Yvo
Good advice. I fly on a big hill. On a big hill it seems just automaticaly a lot of wind. Bad thing for beginners, but I ain't got time to wait for the wind to calm
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Old Sep 08, 2006, 11:53 PM
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Big Hill?

Hummm ... does the wind tend to blow directly into the side of hte hill?

If it does.....SLOPE SOARING! SUPER COOL!

How Slope Soaring Works
http://users.iafrica.com/s/st/stevemac/afc/ssoar.html
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Old Sep 11, 2006, 06:37 AM
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I have been working with some new flyers lately who want to fly from the middle of the circle. The get out into the center of the field and fly all around themselves. At first it seems like a good idea as you have space all arond you, however in practive it is not.

This will leave the plane down wind from you half the time. Learning to keep the plane up wind is an important skill and vital with new pilots who have not learned to work the wind. Once you start challenging higher and higher levels of wind, if you are in the habit automaticaly flying your plane down wing, I believe you will tend to get yourself into trouble.

In addition, if you fly with other people, the "circle" technique will automatically have you flying over people's heads, possibly at at low levels, which is a very bad practice to get into. Not only can it be dangerous, it also violates safety rules at most flying fields. So it is not a practice you want to get into.

Establish a flight line, even if it is just in your mind. Now, fly up wind of that flightline.

Don't fly over your head or over other people's heads.

By keeping the plane upwind of you, you know your orientation and where things are around you. Likewise with the other pilots. If they are also up wind, you see each other's planes more easily and will be less likely to interfere with each other. No one should be suddenly be appearing from behind the flight line.

Fly high, fly up wind, fly safe. :-)
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 02:41 PM
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Cleveland
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Moving from 3 to 4 channel planes...

ok, so i've been lurking around for a while now, flying quite a bit on my simulator, and still waiting to get comfortable enough with my skills and the wind to take out my slowstick for it's first flight....

enough babble and time for a question: i've read a ton of great info here on the boards (thanks everyone!), and understand the basic mechanics of flight described and been applying that to my sim time... as you know, the ss is a 3 channel plane (throttle, elevator, rudder). also having some private pilot training (not much, but enough to be dangerous... ), i understand throttle/elevator control, co-ordinated turning, etc... what i haven't seen is any discussion for pilots that learn on a 3 channel trainer like myself and how to move to aileron planes.... right now, my turning (on sim of course...) is all generated by my rudder.... when i pick a 4 channel model in the sim (or real life i'm assuming), i don't use the rudder except to control slip (experience in private pilot training in a cessna 172...). basically, turning in that plane and on sim can be accomplished with ailerons/elevator alone, though not pretty on some models. i.e. - you can see some models "slipping" or "skidding" in the air when using just ailerons/elevator to perform turning manuvers.

now, i understand i have a ton of ground to cover to get to the point that i get another plane that is a 4 channel plane, but i'm curious what those of you out there with experience would have to say about how to learn to use the other channel on the left stick to those of us that are on 3 channel trainers... that seems to be the biggest challenge to me on the sim now.. (3 channel flight on the ss is fun and confident... though i can still get left and right messed up when i purposefully deviate from a flight plan to practice recovery technique...)

sorry for the longish post... thanks for any help you guys can offer!
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Old Sep 15, 2006, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr159
what i haven't seen is any discussion for pilots that learn on a 3 channel trainer like myself and how to move to aileron planes.... right now, my turning (on sim of course...) is all generated by my rudder.... when i pick a 4 channel model in the sim (or real life i'm assuming), i don't use the rudder except to control slip (experience in private pilot training in a cessna 172...). basically, turning in that plane and on sim can be accomplished with ailerons/elevator alone, though not pretty on some models. i.e. - you can see some models "slipping" or "skidding" in the air when using just ailerons/elevator to perform turning manuvers.
You are absolutely right. Most people who have R/E/A do most of their flying on the right stick only. If you tend to fly small parkflyers from a grass field, and if you hand launch, you can get very used to flying without the rudder. As you noted, the rudder is critical in ground handling, take off and landing.

If you are a glider pilot, like me, you want to learn to use your rudder because it can make the plane turn more smoothly conserving energy by reducing drag. But you can fly thermal gliders with just A/E too.

Many slope gliders are aileron/elevator only or have elevons; no rudder at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr159
now, i understand i have a ton of ground to cover to get to the point that i get another plane that is a 4 channel plane, but i'm curious what those of you out there with experience would have to say about how to learn to use the other channel on the left stick to those of us that are on 3 channel trainers... that seems to be the biggest challenge to me on the sim now.. (3 channel flight on the ss is fun and confident... though i can still get left and right messed up when i purposefully deviate from a flight plan to practice recovery technique...)

With a 3 channel R/E/T plane, both the rudder and elevator belong on the right stick. When you go A/E/T same thing. Ailerons and elevator on right. When you add the rudder back in it is on the left and you tend to forget it.

It all comes down to need and desire. If you are going to take off and land on a runway, you need to learn to use that rudder. If not, you can ignore it an get around fine.

If you want to fly smootly, efficently or if you are interested in scale flight, you need to add the rudder. If you don't care, then don't.



sorry for the longish post... thanks for any help you guys can offer!
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 08:29 PM
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United States, NJ, Monroe Township
Joined Aug 2006
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Thanks.......

I never bothered reading your post because it was long. Today, I decided to read it. Now I know what I did wrong on my first flight. I crashed my plane because I was turning to long and I wasn't doing a little rudder at a time. Also, I forgot to do all of those tests and pre flight checks. I was so nervous, I forgot to do everything. Now that I took the time to read your awesome thread, I think I will do better on my second flight.

Thanks again aeajr!

Bill
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Old Sep 28, 2006, 09:55 PM
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You are not the first person to say my posts are long. It may surprise you how much time I take writing them and how much time I spend trying to make them shorter. There is so much information that I want to share, but some of it gets summarized and some is replaced with links to other threads.

Flying is not simple and explaining how to fly is even more, not simple.

Glad you found it helpful.
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Old Oct 03, 2006, 11:56 AM
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Oldenburg, IN
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Last night I installed RealFlight G3 and started flying for the first time. It wasn't a pretty sight; but then again, that's why I bought the simulator. Actually, after about an hour I was starting to catch on. I was able to take off straight, make a few circles around the flying field and then... well, land - sort of.

One thing I did notice, though, is that I'm flying almost exclusively with Aileron and Elevator. I use the rudder on takeoff (to keep the plane straight), but that's about it. Should I be using more rudder during actual flight?

Also, what's the best way to line up on the runway? I miss almost every single time.

When I finally master the trainer in G3, I've already purchased a T-Hawk for my first plane. I have two other planes, a Great Planes Super Sportster 60 (kit) and a Top-Flight P-51D Mustang (kit) that are still in their boxes. My father gave me the later two aircraft when he got out of flying. While I may take on building one of them, I highly doubt I'll try flying either one of them for quite some time.

For the T-Hawk, I actually purchased it without a Tx and Rx as I'm going to use a Futaba 6EXAP Tx with an R156F Rx.
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Old Oct 15, 2006, 07:19 AM
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Atlanta, GA
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cruising speed or Cursing speed?
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Old Oct 15, 2006, 08:54 AM
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Cruising Speed is around 40-60%. Cursing speed is full throtle, Wide Open!
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Old Oct 19, 2006, 09:27 AM
DivotMan
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Maryland
Joined Oct 2006
7 Posts
Thanks again

Folks,
Add me to the chorus of noobies saying thanks for a great forum full of useful stuff. Based on the recommendations here, my first plane, a T-Hawk trainer package, should be here in a couple of days.
I've been flying the Great Planes Demo, with the NexStar. My question is: Is that plane really _that_ easy to fly? It never stalls. I'm doing loops, rolls, Immelmans, even a sloppy hammerhead. It's practically uncrashable at full power. Is that accurate?
I'm beginning to feel like others - maybe I shoulda got an aileron plane for my first?
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Old Oct 19, 2006, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Scott
I'm beginning to feel like others - maybe I shoulda got an aileron plane for my first?
The more simulator time, with you flying from the ground, the more ready you will be for the real thing. And you may be ready to walk right into an aileron plane without an instructor.

Or, like many, when there is a real plane in front of you and real wind and real trees, kids on bikes, dogs, birds and other planes, and all that stuff, you get confused, you freeze up and you crash.

I hope all your sim time is with you on the ground and the plane in the air. Any other view is a waste of time as you will never see those other views in the real world. And I hope you are using a radio like controller. Keyboard flying does little to prepare you either.

I find a lot of people LOVE to fly the sim in the chase plane mode or from the pilot's seat. Huge fun but no help in learning to fly an RC plane. Not saying you are, just raising the point.

Sims, when used properly can make a huge difference in your early success. Used improperly, they give you a false sense of confidence which comes back to bite you in the end.

Spend most of your sim time taking off, finding the field and landing smoothly. If you can't do these, those loops won't matter. 100 clean takeoffs and landings are worth more than any other trick you might perform.
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Old Oct 19, 2006, 11:22 AM
DivotMan
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Maryland
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Unfortunately, I don't have a radio yet, so I'm using the keyboard. I'm sure the radio will be a big challenge when the time comes. I still struggle with the control reversal and lining up the landing approach properly
I've been flying flight simulators for nearly 20 years, so I know how everything is supposed to work. (mostly Falcon and Flight Unlimited) I'm flying from the ground because the other views are unrealistic and I have better sims for that kinda flying.
I ordered my T-Hawk with the 27 mhz buddy box cause I know I'll need help! The web site says it comes with an integrated cord. Does that mean it's permanently attached to both controllers, or just the buddy box? I hope there's a plug, i want to use it on a sim.
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Old Oct 19, 2006, 04:30 PM
DivotMan
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Maryland
Joined Oct 2006
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Early Christmas

Wahoo! T-Hawk arrived a couple days faster than I anticipated. All the chargers are hummin! Tomorrow I'll hit the park armed with critical info from this forum. An evening here is like months of experience in the field. Thank all you pros for taking time to share your knowledge with us rookies.
This Fly-Rite buddy box has a plug that looks like a stereo mini-plug. Is it possible to hook this up to a sim?
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Old Oct 21, 2006, 01:25 AM
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Joined May 2005
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Flying towards yourself, stick to the low wing.

The single biggest initial challenge new pilots have, from what I've seen, is flying the plane towards yourself. Flying the plane in away from oneself in any direction is natural and instinctive, even if you're perpendicular to the flight path (you just turn you head and left and right are left and right). Pilots seem to get the most flustered trying to remember that the controls are "backwards" when flying towards yourself. The single greatest tip anyone has ever told me was "stick to the low wing." In other words to level the plane (which is what most people are trying to do when they crash coming towards themselves), move the aileron (or rudder) stick in the direction of the lower wing. This raises the wing tip and also allows you to gently bank the plane in the opposite direction. With this tip I've never worried about confusing left and right. In fact, unlike the earlier suggestion to do so, I *never* project myself into the cockpit. It just creates more confusion than it solves and I don't recommend it to any new pilot.

The second tip I picked up was concerning the rudder on a 4-channel plane. Always move the rudder stick in the same direction as you move the aileron stick. This should be obvious, but for some weird reason when turning from the base leg to line up for landing my brain will often totall seize up and my natural instinct is to move the rudder stick in the opposite direction as my bank. I think this is probably due to the left/right mixup thing that the first tip tried to avoid. But conciously thinking about moving the rudder stick in the same direction as the aileron stick prevents disaster.

This reminds me of the third tip I share with new pilots. That is, after you enter a turn, you have to move the controls back in the opposite direction to come out of the turn, and you have to do that earlier than you might think. It's not like a car where it straightens out after you center the wheel. So often I've seen new pilots get the plane "stuck" in a turn and they just sit there slowly spiralling down (slow-stick!), not realizing they can get out at any time with opposite stick.

When training new pilots I always resist saying "left" or "right" knowing that they probably will confuse their directions when coming towards themselves. Instead I say "stick left" or "stick right," hoping to train their minds as they go. Instead of "go up" or "go down" I do use "up elevator" and "down elevator" but I have to tell them ahead of time (well usually it's girls on dates who have never flown before or know anything about airplanes) about that on the elevator stick. The elevator stick was always instinctive for me as it's just like how the hydraulics work on the farm equipment .

For me the simulator was of limited value in learning to fly. For me the basics of flight and turning were instinctive. I found the lack of perspective in the simulators really confusing. On FMS I have no idea half the time where the plane is and there's no chance of me ever landing the plane on the little runway. CRRCSim is much better in this regard, though. The simulators are of most value to me in practicing certain manuevers like the Immelmen, split-S, knife-edge, spins, etc. The simulator is also helping me with a weird problem I have where my brain suddenly can't quite figure out which axis is the throttle and which is the rudder. It's like my brain moves it 90o. I'll be trying to do a hammer-head turn and accidentally kill the throttle too early instead of doing a hard rudder. I also have to think too much about knife-edges (which rudder to I give it for this orientation?).
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