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Old Jul 07, 2007, 10:48 PM
BD Flyer's Avatar
United States, NJ, Monroe Township
Joined Aug 2006
7,093 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fuzz
Wooaaaaa! Super sweet! I had 3 great flights, and 2 good landings. The battery cut out, so my 3rd landing wasn't quite as graceful, but I did put her down wheel first, and it just twisted a bit. Bird is in great shape though!

Thanks all for the advice, about 30 seconds after I got it in the air I realized flying the P51 wouldn't have been pretty. I think I need to tell my co-worker to pick one of these up, he also ordered a similar plane, the spitfire.

Anyway, I think I caught on pretty quick, and my 3rd flight I had quite a good handle on it. Just charging up the battery, maybe I can get out again, Wife permitting! I think the P51 will stay land-locked for a few weeks. . .
Great! Congrats! I bet you had a ton of fun, too. Didn't ya!?
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Old Jul 07, 2007, 11:32 PM
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Calgary, Alberta
Joined Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by BD Flyer
Great! Congrats! I bet you had a ton of fun, too. Didn't ya!?
Oh ya. My friend who came out on my first flight just went and bought one We are going to head out tomorrow morning. I'm a terrible influence on people
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Old Jul 07, 2007, 11:50 PM
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Joined Jul 2007
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Oh, since I'm just training on the simulator right now. . .any tips on landing orientation? I found my best were coming across left to right, but I was wondering if you are best to land straight away from you? I find it takes me a lot of time to "get down" because I make my tun so far away, then have to level out, then cut throttle, and by that time it is usually past me, and I have a hard time judging where the ground is, and I'm past my good LZ. Anyone have a good approach method an landing they could share? Thanks! Hope I'm not pestering to much, or if I should be in a different thread, let me know!

Oh, another question, on a 4 ch tx, how are the controls set up? Is it the same as a 3 ch, but ailerons added to the throttle stick, or does the rudder move to the throttle stick, and ailerons go to the right one?
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 06:09 AM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Hi:

Ughh, 4 channel, I'm going thru the change now, my 3 channel has throttle on the left, on the right elevator and rudder, up and down moving stick vertical for elevator, and rudder horizontal left and right stick....now to the 4 channel, my throttle is again on the left, now the rudder is also same location but moves left and right for rudder, the right side have up and down elevator, new control airleron is horizontal, all new to me...will be an adventure...<>..

I'm doing some taxing to become familiar w/changes, it helped emensely on first Super Cub Flights, now into the Electric STM182, nice plane but will take some effort, looking for a pilot...<>....

Simulators are great, but hands on are still my favorite tho can be lethal, hi hi..<>...

Years past had sailplane experience, tip on orientation, everthing normal with plane going away from you, but things reverse on rudder when it comes towards you, a neat trick is to move stick direction of the downwing, example if it is coming to you and a wing drops, simply move the stick that same direction, want to keep things level, works great for me...<>..

I'm a newbie on powered flight, but improving each time on pavement landings, always land into the wind on approach, if your abit high simply down stick abit will give increase airspeed and lower correctly for landing, I feel its safer to come in slightly high, increasing speed abit helps keep things flying...when your near a foot off the ground carefully flare for the smooth landing...<>..

My position on landing is fighting the orientation as it approaches, remember the downwing method, just before touch down it passes me and all controls are correct...<>..

BEST
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 07:17 AM
Registered User
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fuzz
Oh, since I'm just training on the simulator right now. . .any tips on landing orientation? I found my best were coming across left to right, but I was wondering if you are best to land straight away from you? I find it takes me a lot of time to "get down" because I make my tun so far away, then have to level out, then cut throttle, and by that time it is usually past me, and I have a hard time judging where the ground is, and I'm past my good LZ. Anyone have a good approach method an landing they could share? Thanks! Hope I'm not pestering to much, or if I should be in a different thread, let me know!

Oh, another question, on a 4 ch tx, how are the controls set up? Is it the same as a 3 ch, but ailerons added to the throttle stick, or does the rudder move to the throttle stick, and ailerons go to the right one?

LANDING


Landing is, to a large degree, a function of how your field works. If you have a runway, then the runway defines the landing pattern. If you don't have a runway you you should imagine having one and set up to land in that fashion as you might want to join a club some day and they will likely have a lading strip.

Landing left to right or right to left is a matter of wind direction. You ALWAYS land into the wind and you ALWAYS take off into the wind ALWAYS.

How high or how fast is a practice thing. Some days I do take-off and landing drills a good portion of the day, expecially if I have a new plane. Each plane is different.

How much wind will also impact how you land to some degree. If it is very windy or very gusty, that will cause you to change your landing approach.
If you are directly into the wind or if the wind is somewhat off to one side changes it again.

Finally what controls you have will impact how you land. Do you have flaps? If you do then you can come in slower and steeper than if you don't.

Perhaps someone has a good link on landing that they can share.

CONTROLS

As far as where controls go, I think this appears elsewhere in the thread but it is worth posting again.


What Goes on Which Stick?

by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

If you are flying an RTF electric plane, your radio and servos are already set-up for you. However if you are setting up an ARF or finishing a kit, you will be installing your own radio equipment. So, which stuff goes on which stick, and why?

We usually talk about what surface is controlled by what stick. However,
that is not really the right way to look at it.

First, the control axis:

Pitch - nose up/nose down - usually controlled by the elevator or elevator function of elevons

Roll - rotation of the wings around the fuselage - controlled by ailerons or the aileron functon of elevons.

If the plane does not have ailerons or elevons, then roll can be controlled by the rudder or the rudder function of a V tail rudervators, dependign on the design of the plane. On rudder only planes the rudder works with dihedral in the wings, the upward slant of the wings, to roll the plane.

Yaw - movement of the nose left or right - controlled by rudder or the rudder function if V tail ruddervators.

Speed - throttle control

If you are in a different part of the world, you may be flying mode 1, 3 or 4. I live in North America where Mode 2 is the standard, so the rest of this post will be referencing mode 2 control positions.

Note that I mention Mode 2, which is marked with the * below.

Left stick ...............Right Stick ..................Mode

Pitch and Yaw .......Speed and Roll ..............1

Speed and Yaw*......Pitch and Roll*..............2*

Pitch and Roll ..........Speed and Yaw ...........3

Speed and Roll ........Pitch and Yaw .............4

For a power plane, landing gear, flaps and other such functions are assigned
to switches, buttons, dials, sliders or levers, but are not defined as part of the mode definitions.

For a two stick radio, used in mode two format, the standard format in North
America, pitch and roll are on the right stick with roll ALWAYS being your
primary turning control. Yaw and speed control are on the left stick.

Based on mode 2 it is very easy to move from a dual stick to a single stick radio as the right, or the only stick, always have has your primary fight controls if pitch and roll.

Primary Speed control

Since this is written for electric flyers, we will assume you have an electric motor. On a two stick radio, the speed control is on the left stick and is controlled by the motion that goes toward you to turn the motor off and away from you to give full throttle.

For a single stick radio the throttle control is usually on the left side and will be a slide, switch or lever.

Where does the rudder go?

Confusion often exists around where to put the rudder. Depending on the design of your plane, the rudder can play different roles so its placement can change. On a three channel electric plane without ailerons the rudder is your primary turning surface. It provides both roll and yaw control so it goes on the right stick for roll control, as the primary turning surface. This stick also has pitch control provided by the elevator. The rudder will work with a feature of the wings, called dihedral or polyhedral, to roll or bank the plane when you want to turn.

What if there are ailerons, or elevons?

Primary flight controls of pitch and roll are always on the right stick, or the only stick. If this is a 3 channel plane with throttle, aileron and elevator controls only, like a flying wing that has elevon controls (combined elevator aileron in one surface), now where do I put things? Think of function rather than surface and you will know immediately. Which surface provides roll control? In this case it is the ailerons, so they go on the right stick with the elevator which provides pitch control.

If this is a 4 channel plane that has ailerons and a rudder, the ailerons are your primary roll control, so they go on the right stick. The rudder moves to the left hand stick to provide yaw control, which helps the ailerons turn the plane smoothly. The rudder, in this configuration, also plays a valuable part during landing when we may wish to redirect the nose of the plane without tipping the wings using the ailerons.


Moving from single stick to dual stick radios

Some people feel it is confusing to move from a single stick radio to a dual stick, radio, however, if you are flying mode 2, it really isn't confusing at all. If you think of your radio and your controls in this manner, there is no confusion moving back and forth between single stick and dual stick radios or between three channel R/E/T planes and A/E/T planes or planes that are A/E/R/T. On a single stick radio, pitch and roll are on the single stick, which happens to be oriented to the right side of the radio. If this is a dual stick radio, pitch and roll are still on the right hand stick. It doesn't matter if it is a rudder/elevator plane or an aileron/elevator plane. Pitch and roll are on the right stick, or the only stick.

Think of your controls this way and there is never a doubt what goes where or which controls to use when you switch between radios and planes.

I hope this was helpful.
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 07:48 AM
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Calgary, Alberta
Joined Jul 2007
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Thanks for the tips guys. Its been windy here, so I haven't had a chance at another flight, and may not get one for a few days. My field doesn't have a landing strip, but I have been taking off from the baseball diamond, and trying to land there as well. I just always overshoot it :P i know, this part takes practice, so I will keep at it.

As for controls, it sounds like mode 2 would work fine, so i hope my plane comes set up that way. I was thinking I could just ignore rudder until I got comfortable flying the plane, is that something that could be done without a problem? I tried it in the simulator without a problem, but real world can be different.
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 02:38 PM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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If you are hand launching, rudder, on a R/E/A plane can be ignored for a while. In fact most slope gliders don't have rudders, nor do flying wings. So you can definately fly without it.

If you are using a runway you will need rudder as that is also your ground steering and the way you crab into the wind on a cross wind takeoff and landing.

At some point, do add rudder to your flying so you have full command of your plane.
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Old Jul 09, 2007, 03:47 PM
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Calgary, Alberta
Joined Jul 2007
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I will be using a run way. Good to know I can fly without using it much until I get the hang of how ailerons control the plane. I sure wish the wind would die down though. . .gusting to 50km/h. Not very plane friendly.
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Old Jul 15, 2007, 03:14 PM
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Beulah, AL.
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr
If you are hand launching, rudder, on a R/E/A plane can be ignored for a while. In fact most slope gliders don't have rudders, nor do flying wings. So you can definately fly without it.

If you are using a runway you will need rudder as that is also your ground steering and the way you crab into the wind on a cross wind takeoff and landing.

At some point, do add rudder to your flying so you have full command of your plane.
I am new to flying and bought a Firebird Freedom because the man at Hobbyzone said, this was a good beginner plane. I have been reading all the information and appreciate it. Thanks to Aeajr and all the others. I will continue to look here for help.
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Old Jul 15, 2007, 07:43 PM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Freedom has not gotten good reports as a first plane. Only advice I can give you is get some experienced help. If you are going to try and fly it on your own, you may want to put a quarter in the nose as the plane seems to be a bit tail heavy as it comes out of the box. OK for an experienced pilot but a bit challenging for a new flyer.
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Old Jul 23, 2007, 04:06 AM
New_Crasher
Roxbury
Joined Jul 2007
5 Posts
Thank you aeajr

Hello aeajr.
My name is Ralph Beach and I am the art director of the Roxbury Boys and Girls Club in Boston MA. I am trying to get inner city youth interested in aviation through model plane flying and to give them an experience they have not had before.

I am completely new to RC plane flying. I have destroyed three planes to date. Two Balancas and one EastStar . Your post is most informative and I appreciate it greatly.

aeajr, how do I measure the wind?
Are there any tutorials on balancing an airplane which I read is very important.
I am using a Macintosh computer and I can't find any flight simulator software. I would like to use my Easystar radio with the software to learn better. Please help me so I can help these kids and eventually change my login name.
Thanks Ralph.
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Old Jul 23, 2007, 05:36 AM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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1) send me a PM and let's discuss your kids and your goals. Maybe I can help.

2) Starting with a flight simulator
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3893
MAC Simulator
http://crrcsim.sourceforge.net/wiki/...RCsim.HomePage

3) Helping People Learn to Fly - As a student and a techer this will help
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5767

4) How to find an Instructor - If you want to teach, learning from an experienced pilot is the best approach
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541484

I look forward to hearing from you.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 08:50 PM
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Joined Jul 2007
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thanks i will keep that in mind the next time i fly my easy star i have always been afraid of altitude. I found it nice to fly in a farmers field it buffs your crashes
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Old Jul 26, 2007, 10:42 PM
Enjoy Life B4U Die!
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United States, GA, Powder Springs
Joined Dec 1999
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Quote:
Launch at full power and climb to a good height, say 100 feet as a minimum, so you have time to recover from a mistake.
Careful not to stall - another common newbie problem.

Park flyers &/or "trainers" have drastic differences in flight characteristics. This can result from, but is not limited to (1) a wide range of power to weight ratios, and (2), differences in wing loading (weight of plane divided by area of wing). Some planes "float" in the air, others need to really maintain speed in order to provide adequate lift for good flight control.

If you have a well balanced airplane with a light wing loading, and it's set up properly, I'd highly recommend hand-tossing it instead of ROG (rise off ground). Take the airplane, point it into the gentle breeze, apply power, toss it out almost level but SLIGHTLY up. Let the plane fly almost horizontal so it can build up speed, THEN gain some altitude SLOWLY. When you toss it, don't run, don't toss it really hard - this is completely unnecessary with an adequate park flyer or "trainer".

Hand launching with these techniques may prevent two common newbie problems:
(1) Crashing during take offs
(2) Crashing after take off due to stalling

There are so many great planes to learn on - I'd suggest a very light plane, a "floater" to begin with. These are less prone to be damaged during inevitable "boo boo landings" but they are more difficult to fly in windy conditions.

When I got back into r/c about 10 years ago (?) I bought a Wingo which turned out to be a really easy build & fly airplane. Mine was very durable and I flew the snot outta that thing. Sold it to someone here - it's probably still flying today (who knows). There are many other, equally capable or perhaps better planes to begin with. I think simulators are okay, but there's no substitute for the real thing.

Have fun - don't spend a fortune - never compromise safety.
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Old Jul 27, 2007, 07:29 AM
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LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz_Man
Careful not to stall - another common newbie problem.

Park flyers &/or "trainers" have drastic differences in flight characteristics. This can result from, but is not limited to (1) a wide range of power to weight ratios, and (2), differences in wing loading (weight of plane divided by area of wing). Some planes "float" in the air, others need to really maintain speed in order to provide adequate lift for good flight control.

If you have a well balanced airplane with a light wing loading, and it's set up properly, I'd highly recommend hand-tossing it instead of ROG (rise off ground). Take the airplane, point it into the gentle breeze, apply power, toss it out almost level but SLIGHTLY up. Let the plane fly almost horizontal so it can build up speed, THEN gain some altitude SLOWLY. When you toss it, don't run, don't toss it really hard - this is completely unnecessary with an adequate park flyer or "trainer".

Hand launching with these techniques may prevent two common newbie problems:
(1) Crashing during take offs
(2) Crashing after take off due to stalling

There are so many great planes to learn on - I'd suggest a very light plane, a "floater" to begin with. These are less prone to be damaged during inevitable "boo boo landings" but they are more difficult to fly in windy conditions.

When I got back into r/c about 10 years ago (?) I bought a Wingo which turned out to be a really easy build & fly airplane. Mine was very durable and I flew the snot outta that thing. Sold it to someone here - it's probably still flying today (who knows). There are many other, equally capable or perhaps better planes to begin with. I think simulators are okay, but there's no substitute for the real thing.

Have fun - don't spend a fortune - never compromise safety.

These are good thoughts but are a bit vague and vague means nothing to a newbie.

What is a light plane vs a heavy plane. How much does light weight? I got a lot of advice like this when I started. Good advice but I had no idea what it meant.

A magister at 4 pounds is light compared to a typical glow trainer at 6. Is that a light plane?

What is light wing loading vs heavy wing loading. The typical Glow trainer wing loading can be more than 15 oz/sq ft, but in a 36" parkflyer that would be a rock.

Why is hand launching safer than ROG? I don't know that I would agree with this but I would like to hear your reasoning.

Let me wrap some numbers around these things with my own suggestions.

1) For a small electric plane, some ranges might be

36" Weight no more than 12 ounces
48" Weight no more than 20 ounces
56" Weight no more than 28 onces.

There is nothing magic about these numbers, but these would typically provide you with "lighter" wing loadings. I did not calculate these, they just look about right based on experience.

If they give you wing loading in the specs, I would suggest something between 6 and 12 ounce wing loading for a beginner plane that you will be learing to flying on your own. That is a pretty wide range but I have had success with planes all across that range when working with new pilots

Can you use planes outside this range for self training? Absolutely! But these will give you some starting points.


NO WIND WIND WHEN YOU ARE STARTING OUT ON YOUR OWN!

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to shout. ( yes I did. )
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