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Old Apr 02, 2005, 06:17 PM
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Rudder/Aileron Mixing?

While flying my EasyStreet today i started using the Rudder for the first time.
It has quite a tendancy to bank in the direction of the rudder, which i would have thought is fairly normal.

I have a 6EXA and i know its got some mixing functions. Im just wondering if its worth while adding some aileron in the opposite direction? Maby then i can do some huge Knife-Edge runs across the whole field!
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Old Apr 02, 2005, 06:34 PM
Ascended Master
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Palmdale, CA
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Try it.
Doesn't sound fatal..
But having seperate control of the ailerons and rudder makes for a better pilot.
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Old Apr 02, 2005, 06:43 PM
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Yeah of course It just seems alot easier to correct bad tendancys with a programmable mix. So i dont have to concentrate so much on keeping the wings horizontal so much, and instead can concentrate on where the plane is going
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Old Apr 02, 2005, 06:51 PM
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Snag with a programable mix is that you're stuck with it. Say you get some roll when you apply top rudder in knife edge, and you take it out with a little opposite aileron to the rudder movement. It fixes knife-edge, but makes regular turns a little unbalanced. Or it could mess up a straight aileron roll.

Now apply yourself to practising using all the control axes, without mixing. Against that roll with top rudder in KE, you just remember to ease on a little aileron against the rudder throw. Rest of the time, rudder gives you just rudded.

Having said that, there's a place for mixing. The Easy Street is a shoulder wing model and will roll when you hit rudder. If it doesn't - collect your beer at our next meeting. I've designed and built several models that shape, with dihedral free wing and tail on the thrustline, and they'd all roll on rudder nearly as well as a high winger - even the one without a tailplane would do quite a nice rudder roll.

Why not play with the rudder / aileron mix and see how well you can do compared to it? You'll probably only need 4 - 5% aileron opposite to rudder throw to cure what ails her - any more and I'd start to wonder if I didn't need a low winged aerobatic instead. Be prepared to have different amounts in either roll direction too.

Mostly, fly lots and have fun figuring it out.

Regards

Dereck
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Old Apr 02, 2005, 06:59 PM
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Ill give it a try tommorow, see how it goes.

Your right about the roll, i gave it full rudder today and it rolled so far over i ended up using aileron to continue the roll back to level flight.

Ive done more flying the last few days than ive ever done, so im just enjoying getting my confidence up and learning

Now if only this blustery wind would go away i would have some easier landings
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Old Apr 02, 2005, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky Paul
Try it.
Doesn't sound fatal..
But having seperate control of the ailerons and rudder makes for a better pilot.

agree with this...I flew having them mixed for awhile, until I got comfortable with using both sticks...
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 12:15 AM
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all of the top aerobatic pilots use mixes, rudder/aileron and rudder/elevator on a switch so you can have it on or off. For landing aileron/rudder is good too (on a switch) and stops tip stalling and "aims" your plane better. I usually use a 3 button switch, one click is all off, 2 click is aileron/rudder, 3 click is rudder/aileron and rudder/elevator.

Throttle/elevator is useful in some planes.
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 12:35 PM
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Well i tried it out today, started off with 10% rudder/aileron mix, and it seemed just about perfect.

I was able to put in full rudder while the wings stayed pretty level. I will just have to get used to how much the speed drops off when you do that!

The wind was around 15-20mph today so i had to land quite fast into thick grass.....oops my tail got ripped in half
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 01:56 PM
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On some of my planes without ailerons, I have the rudder on channel 4, with the 1->4 mix enabled, so I can steer on the ground with rudder as I'm used to, and fly with "aileron" as I'm used to.
Sometimes I'll find I'm putting in "aileron" on one stick, and taking it out with the other, when finessing approaches..
Watching a master pilot slip a plane in is awesome.. I can't do that!
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 02:19 PM
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Of course, if you're not a master pilot, and you mix everything with everything else - at some point you are going to get mightily confused, and make a right mess of things.

Yes, a 'pro' can handle flying and changing a mode to suit the next maneuvre pretty easily. BUT - remember that the dedicated competition flier is going out every day and flying their comp patterns. Maybe some flights they'll repeatedly fly a particular maneuvre or maybe just a segment of their schedule, but mostly they are rehearsing their comp routines.

It's not all that much fun. A buddy of mine who competed once described to me how he'd go out and fly three flights in a lunchbreak, each one comprising two complete schedules - it was FAI and a ways back, but the basic concept of practice doesn't change much. He flew from the same spot, in the same direction irrespective of the wind - as competitions seldom enjoy perfect winds, a vital part of his training was dealing with whatever the wind threw at him.

After a few years - and some good times, he admitted - he quit competing and returned to flying for fun when and how he fancied.

Mind you, all that practice showed. He was a far better pilot than most, was never bothered by things like crosswinds and could place his model precisely in the sky throughout a flight and spot-land like we'd all like to.

Tinkering with mixers is fun, even for a fairly newbie sports flier - otherwise, the only folk who benefit are them as sold you the more expensive radio But nothing beats good, structured flying practice, making the model do what you want, not what it and the wind decide on.

FWIW - I have three trannies. The cheapest has diddle beyond servo reverse. My Hitec 5 has some mixing and my Futaba 7 channel has a lot more. I've used elevon mixing lots over the years in my tailless models, and have a tadger of rudder/aileron cross mix on E-Rotica right now. The rest of the fleet - including the big Cub, which does need its rudder nudging on those occasions when she decides to ignore her ailerons - is sadly lacking in any tranny mixing whatsoever.

Maybe I got conned some by BigRadio Inc. ?

Regards

Dereck
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 02:36 PM
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When I was getting some coaching I was told to mix it in my head based on what I wanted and what the plane wanted. The mix required invariably varies according to flying speed and as Dereck says if your flying crosswind you'll need to do it that way as the conditions are never the same. My Multiplex radio manual describes Aileron/Rudder mixing as often necessary for Gliders (due to the higher aspect ratios) but says the mix is there to help the less experienced pilots reduce their workload. Flip the bird inverted and your stuffed as the coupling is now back to front.

Your brain is the best mixer out there. Just needs a little practicing.

--
Dave
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 03:42 PM
717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dereck
After a few years - and some good times, he admitted - he quit competing and returned to flying for fun when and how he fancied.
It's all a matter of your perspective and where you are coming from.

I became an airline pilot because I loved flying airplanes. I relate to Dereck's friend, in that I now long to fly "when and how I fancy."

My euphoria comes from flying my model airplanes without any computer magic. Just basic pilot inputed skills. If I can't do it, I try to figure it out.

I get enough button-pushing at work so I like to keep it simple in my hobby. I'm not implying that the new technology is great, just stating how wonderful our hobby is in offering something for everyone.
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 05:40 PM
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I don't see any problem mixing out a planes bad habits. That's why we buy nice radios. It you want to mix out a little coupling in knife edge, or some adverse yaw on a bipe... Cool.

But on simple gentle flying planes. You are far better off just learning how to fly them. It won't take long and you'll automatically add the necessary aileron input to make a flat rudder turn, or leave it out to bank slightly. That's all part of becoming a better pilot.

That said I love playing with mixes and modes. Making that waterfall a little tighter or flat spin flatter is always a bonus in my books. If a couple mixes makes the plane more 'pure' you can bet I'll put them in.

Mike
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Old Apr 03, 2005, 09:31 PM
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I tend to use a little rudder mixing with ailerons in my long wing sailplanes. I can correct for adverse yaw on my own, but when they get waaaay up there, I find that I just don't have the eyesight to coordinate turns as well as my mix.

Other than that though, it is probably better to learn the "Way of the left thumb".
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Old Apr 04, 2005, 06:19 AM
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What is the point of having a programmable tranny if you're not going to use the fancy functions?

But surely in order to program it succesfully you must understand how the individual functions work?

Seems to me that having mixes available and refusing to even try them is like having a dog and barking yourself. What have you got to lose? You may even improve the flying characteristics of an already good model.

In all my transmitters mixing can be switched on and off by a single switch so I really cannot see a problem.
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