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Old Mar 19, 2005, 02:08 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
"Over moderation" and moving threads

I realize this is not the place, but I'd like to issue a warning about 'over-moderation'.

In the past 24 hours, several threads have been moved out of OUR forum. Not because they were off-topic, offensive or any other reason I can tell, other than they may 'fit' better in a more specific (read: obscure) forum, such as flying wings, 3D, or Modeling Science.

I'm not objecting to having the more specific forums, for the focused users, who wish to discuss higher math or specifics strictly pertaining to something us hackers are not familiar with. BUT, the ones I've noticed have been no more specific about an off-topic subject than has been allowed all along.

Some of us call 'Foamies' home, and discuss many related subjects of our models, including the motors, batteries, design, construction and flying tricks. If you filter out all of our input, we won't bother anymore, and this will become a very quiet and boring place.
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Old Mar 19, 2005, 02:31 PM
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Patrick Plawner's Avatar
United States, CA, Burlingame
Joined Sep 2001
5,350 Posts
Hi Gene,
thanks for the feedback.

We try to apply common sense when we move threads and it works.
Said that, a mistake is always possible so if you spot something particular, feel welcome to contact any of the moderator.

No promise it will be back though


Cheers,
Patrick.
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Old Mar 19, 2005, 10:16 PM
ewo
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Spencer In.USA
Joined Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond
I realize this is not the place, but I'd like to issue a warning about 'over-moderation'.

In the past 24 hours, several threads have been moved out of OUR forum. Not because they were off-topic, offensive or any other reason I can tell, other than they may 'fit' better in a more specific (read: obscure) forum, such as flying wings, 3D, or Modeling Science.

I'm not objecting to having the more specific forums, for the focused users, who wish to discuss higher math or specifics strictly pertaining to something us hackers are not familiar with. BUT, the ones I've noticed have been no more specific about an off-topic subject than has been allowed all along.

Some of us call 'Foamies' home, and discuss many related subjects of our models, including the motors, batteries, design, construction and flying tricks. If you filter out all of our input, we won't bother anymore, and this will become a very quiet and boring place.
i compleetly agree with Gene
i would not like having a thread moved to 3-d simply because 3-d was possible with the plane and if i had a gripe with the administrators of the foamies section i would want it to stay there, not be moved to the site suguestions and complaints forum probably never to be seen again

too much moderation is just too much

EDIT......................


ewo
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Last edited by ewo; Oct 04, 2006 at 07:18 PM. Reason: edited because of calvin i guess
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 02:46 AM
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Patrick Plawner's Avatar
United States, CA, Burlingame
Joined Sep 2001
5,350 Posts
ewo,


We all agree with gene up to a point

If a thread makes more sense to remain in the foamy forum, it should.
And if it does not... It won't.

I wrote up to a point as What Gene wrote here:
Quote:
they may 'fit' better in a more specific (read: obscure) forum, such as flying wings, 3D, or Modeling Science.
is not accurate. We don't have "obscure" forum and you have actually better chances to have a more focused and prolific thread if it is located among the Gurus, in the area it relates too.

This is the entire purpose of having sub-forums and it is done for the benefit of all. Moving a Thread is not a punishment, like you imply in your post, but actually a help to everyone.


Hope you better understand,
Regards,
Patrick.
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 03:12 AM
3 Blades to the Wind
Shaun Hendricks's Avatar
Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
4,085 Posts
Patrick, congratulations on the 'promotion'...

I'm not sure you're entirely seeing the point that Gene and Ewo are trying to make. I don't think either of them feel that having a thread moved is 'punishment'. I do think, however, that having a thread moved means that the moderators feel that it was posted in an incorrect place and thus the decision of the person as to where it was posted was somehow 'incorrect'. People could take this as a kind of insult or at the very least, be embarassed by it.

When you have a forum like "Foamies" which covers all kinds of architectures and designs of aircraft (in theory you could have a glow fuel plane in foam. I'm sure it's been done) then any aircraft made of foam or using foam in it's build techniques would, in theory, be allowed to be posted there. If it gets moved out of there to a more 'precise' thread, the thread starter thinks 'What did I do? I wanted it here but the moderators moved it on me...' There is an almost immediate recrimination that is felt, meant or not, it happens to most folks.

If I can offer a suggestion... if the thread could exist in multiple places, then it should best be left in the spot it was started, unless the moderators feel strongly about it and the thread starter is contacted and asked if it can be moved with permission and the reasoning the moderators want it moved. It would be best to allow the starter to decline the move, again if it can reasonably exist in the location it does, if you want to maintain a level of plausible 'customer service'. I suppose the best way to put it is to assume the author intended the thread to be where it was unless it's completely out of its zone.

To give you a 'for instance', the EZ* thread could just as reasonably exist in the beginners area because it is a beginners plane and many people (like myself) new to RC would find that 17 thread long tome quite fascinating to read and realize how versatile the plane is, even though it's a trainer. It is, however, made of foam and can reasonably exist where it is... in the end, there is no reason to move it. Potato, Po-tah-to, same word, spoken differently. We all understand it when spoken either way. I believe EWO and Gene are asking for a little more leniency to be extended, that's all.
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 03:35 AM
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Patrick Plawner's Avatar
United States, CA, Burlingame
Joined Sep 2001
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Hi shaun and thanks for the welcome.

It is certainly not a binary decision to move a thread. You know the joke about binary, they are only 10 types of people, the one that can read binary and the others

The thing is many threads are started "somewhere", either because the author hopes to get maximum visibility, or because he did not pay enough attention where it should start or because it indeed should be there. In any case, we have to manage the traffic here to make sure it remains fluid and accurate for everyone.

So as I wrote, common sense is applied, and if the author of a specific thread thinks that a thread was moved by mistake, just PM any moderator of the related Forum and it will be checked. Can't tell you more than that.

Now, I went and checked and in the last 10 days, 250 threads counted and 6 were moved.
That is a 2.4%... I would not call it a high rate of move from any scale.
And I did checked the threads moved and they all made sense to me, to be moved.

Now, this is my welcoming thread Focus, focus guys
Just kidding.

But on the other hand, that is a good example of the wrong post in the wrong forum... These should be made in the "Site Suggestions/Complaints" Forum



Patrick
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Last edited by Patrick Plawner; Mar 20, 2005 at 05:45 AM. Reason: Compiled 2 posts in 1.
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 02:26 PM
Look! Up in the sky!
eBird's Avatar
Grand Junction, Colorado
Joined Jul 2002
4,636 Posts
I realize many folks call Foamies "home" but the simple fact is sometimes a thread isn't relevant to the forum and should be moved.

A user should be able to browse through any particular forum and see threads related to that forum topic. They should not have to keep dodging irrelevant threads, posted there just because the users aren't familiar with RC Groups' other forums.

This keeps RC Groups a valuable, categorized, comprehensive source of "findable" information, not a haphazard mess of threads related only by what folks call "home".

Trying to figure out how to fix the broken shaft on your foamie's motor is a dissussion that belongs in Power Systems. This enriches the Power Systems forum, and doesn't dilute the Foamies forum. Discussion of power systems that work on a particular foam model belong here.

I agree we don't need to be nitpicking and moving threads that might be applicable someplace else as well. If it's about a foam airplane (the build, flight characteristics, performance, etc) it belongs here.

Now, since this thread is all about moving off topic threads, and has nothing to do with foam airplanes, I'm splitting it and moving to site suggestions and complaints, another RC Groups forum you are all welcome to browse (but hopefully not call "home" )
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 03:14 PM
Happy when flying
botmund's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
205 Posts
Searching for Depron in "The Builders Workshop" produced 57 hits. Got 256 hits in "Foamies". I have not had any help yet from the TBW forum. I am very happy to be a part of these forums and I have had so much help here on all kinds of subjects. Don't want to sound like I am not appreciating the help. I do feel that my thread belong in the Foamies and that I would get the best help from the people reading that thread. Have I missed something?

My thread about the Depron build
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 03:52 PM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Not to start (or continue) a nit-picking contest, but to solely reinforce my original point:

- Most of the 'new' forums are 'obscure' IMO. The reorganization which occured a year or so ago, hid many forums way down the list in another world from lots of users. Flying Wings under the same category as 'DIY Electronics', 'Modeling Science, etc.?
Give me a break. 99% of the wings are foamies and half are electric, the other half slope gliders. IMO, it's watered down, and hidden from the public. They will be looking in electric-foamies or Sailplanes-Slope.
- Every explanation so far ASSUMES the user who started the thread is wrong. Sure, they have the right to appeal a decision, but they are never asked what the intention was.
- I prefaced my post admitting it was O-T, BUT it does pertain to the forum, and the most recent management change, which was the focus of the thread in which it was posted. No way would anyone in the foamies forum have seen it where it is now.

Again, my point is that by moving threads out into the ozone, since the COULD fit there better, IS PUNISHMENT. It's censorship, it's insulting, and it will add a nail to the coffin.

Do what you will. Obviously it's not our forum, it's yours. Some of the most valuable members are gone now, and others seem to be wandering away shaking their heads...
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 06:43 PM
Registered User
Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
11,182 Posts
RC Groups has grown a lot, and I personally don't have as much free time as I did at one time. So I can no longer monitor all of the individual forums I once did. The time I do have I've been spending mostly in Batteries and Chargers. I've noticed that battery and charger discussions will start in various forums and meander around for awhile before being moved to Batteries and Chargers. In many cases, one of the regulars there will have a good answer to the question that may never have been given in the forum where the thread originated.

This may be symptomatic of a small online community growing into a much larger one. People no longer have the time to visit as many forums as they used to because the volume of messages is so high in all of them, including the one that most matches their interests. So the individual forums become independent communities where regulars hang out all the time, become good buddies and discuss all subjects instead of going to the forum that's supposed to specialize in some of the topics being discussed.

In that environment, there's bound to be disagreement about messages being moved away from where people's buddies hang out to one that seems obscure. I'm not sure what the best solution is to this problem. Maybe this discussion will help produce some understanding of the problem and potential solutions.
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 07:48 PM
3 Blades to the Wind
Shaun Hendricks's Avatar
Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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Well, I agree with the move here, I felt a little funny posting where I did. That's one of the things I think is appropriate when a thread begins to seriously meander. I am a moderator (builder) of a forum that is used where I work and since I have to do all the work on it, I understand the problems in supporting these beasts. I can truly empathize with your problem, but I've found giving the users the greater posting lattitude and clearly demarking the lines has helped me govern the threads more than anything. I don't ask "Does this thread belong here" when I see an odd one, I ask myself "Does it NOT belong here at all." if the answer is "I can see it being here after a fashion" then I let it stay. I too have moved threads and started a few peoples fires on this, so you have my sympathies. Thanks for the work on this. It's not an easy job and I do want to be one that says "Thank You" for putting your time and energy into it.
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 08:07 PM
ewo
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Spencer In.USA
Joined Oct 2003
4,547 Posts
Told you we wold be meeting here,

ewo
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 08:47 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
The solution is to subscribe to threads with topics you want to monitor. That way you can view new posts in those threads without visiting that particular forum.
..a
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 12:27 PM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Space Coast
Joined Oct 2000
21,105 Posts
Just browsing through the Builders Thread, there seems to be a lot of overlap between the builders forum and the foamies/3D threads. Both of these have many "build" threads in them which if we go by botmund's thread move, should be in the builders forum.

Are there defined moderator's gates that send a thread one way or the other between the builders and foamy/3D forums.

For instance:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=349082
or
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=349587

I myself would like to see foam build threads in the foamy forum (IAC).
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 01:39 PM
Frequent Flyer
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Kalamazoo, MI USA
Joined Aug 2003
2,892 Posts
I have not looked in the builder's workshop forum because I somehow thought it was primarily scratchbuilding. Looking at the description again: "Discussion of model building techniques, including scratchbuilding, kits, plans, and related tools, machining, CAD/CNC/CAM, etc." I see that kits are in there, but when I think of a Formosa kit, i think of the Foamies forum. Putting together a Formosa does not make me think of myself as a builder.
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