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Old Mar 18, 2005, 01:12 AM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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I've been going over the plane, trying to decide where to shave weight. I weighed the wing and fuse individually. I was wrong about the wing. It only weighs 8 oz, so I doubt I could really lose much with it...maybe 3/4 oz if I rebuilt it. The fuse was heavier than I thought and I'm sure I can shave an oz off it. The motor/gb is 2 oz heavier than anything I'm considering for replacement. I used 2 arrows for spars in the wing. 1 arrow, cut in half for the struts and 1 arrow for the boom. Other than a little plywood in the fuse, the rest is fanfold foam. I'm using HS81 servos. I could change to HS55s and save a little, but I really like the added torque of the 81s on something this size with large control surfaces. So, I guess the bottom line is that I should be able to shave about 2 or 3 oz without compromising the integrity of the structure, when I build another fuse. I'll probably order a motor tomorrow. I think I've decided which one, but will sleep on it before laying out the cash. I think I'm going with the Himaxx 2025/5300 with offset GB for a couple of reasons. One is that my only survivng 3 cell pack is on its last leg and this motor will offer pretty good thrust with 2 cells (26+ oz). Out of sight thrust with 3 (38+ oz), when I replace my old pack. Another reason is that for $75 I get the GB with 3 sets of gears, prop adapter... all plug and play. I figure if I decide to try the E49 later, then I'll just buy one and stick it in the Himaxx GB.

Randy
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Old Mar 18, 2005, 05:14 AM
In Thrust We Trust
Norfolk Intl, Virginia, United States
Joined Jul 2004
1,660 Posts
Impossible?

Not with your creative thinking! Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it would sink upon landing, I meant since the camera was in a pool noodle and already pointed down, it would float with the camera lens pointed underwater, taking shots of the fishies. I really do think you have something here, Randy. Keep refining it till your satisfied. Good choice on motor/money factor. The GB that the Himaxx comes with has cooling fins, which helps alot. And is a good choice for power. I use it on the Buccaneer, more than enough power to rotate off water. Just weighed my 56 inch wing, 5.4 oz. So you can dump the 3 oz. by not using the glue in the wing. Bend and tape. Really does work well. Smart thinking on servos. You could substitute the rudder servo for a 55 since there is less torque then on the elevator. In a dive you'll want the 81 to pull out and prevent flutter without stripping. Use carbon fiber for pushrods if your not already, saves lotsa weight. Once again, great job Randy!
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Old Mar 18, 2005, 09:50 AM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterDog
Not with your creative thinking! Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it would sink upon landing, I meant since the camera was in a pool noodle and already pointed down, it would float with the camera lens pointed underwater, taking shots of the fishies. I really do think you have something here, Randy. Keep refining it till your satisfied. Good choice on motor/money factor. The GB that the Himaxx comes with has cooling fins, which helps alot. And is a good choice for power. I use it on the Buccaneer, more than enough power to rotate off water. Just weighed my 56 inch wing, 5.4 oz. So you can dump the 3 oz. by not using the glue in the wing. Bend and tape. Really does work well. Smart thinking on servos. You could substitute the rudder servo for a 55 since there is less torque then on the elevator. In a dive you'll want the 81 to pull out and prevent flutter without stripping. Use carbon fiber for pushrods if your not already, saves lotsa weight. Once again, great job Randy!

LOL! I knew what you meant. Struck me funny, the more I thought about it. The mental picture of a glass bottom plane popped into my head.

I have never though about carbon fiber pushrods. That would save some weight and help balance easier. The ones I'm using are fairly heavy threaded metal rods with metal ends/clips. Do you make your own from carbon fiber or do they sell them? Wish I already had the motor. Weather here is perfect today and I should be off work early. Oh well.

Randy
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Old Mar 18, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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Motor is on its way! I may check at Lowes today and see if they have any 3/4 or 1" foam ins. board to make a new lighter fuse. Would be an easy way to eliminate all that glue in the fuse. I think I'll leave the wing alone for a little while, til after I test the motor.

Randy
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Old Mar 18, 2005, 07:54 PM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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I picked up some 3/4" tongue and groove foam today. I'll cut another fuse in the next few days and see if I can lighten up some.

Randy
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Old Mar 18, 2005, 08:10 PM
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Pasco, Washington
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Randy
The Probond, Gorilla type glue is available at Walmart and is called "Elmer's Ultimate Glue", "Polyurethane", It's got a picture of a Bull on the label. It is great stuff.
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Old Mar 19, 2005, 12:10 AM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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[QUOTE=RidgeTop]Randy
The Probond, Gorilla type glue is available at Walmart and is called "Elmer's Ultimate Glue", "Polyurethane", It's got a picture of a Bull on the label. It is great stuff.[/QUOTE

I agree, Probond is the best to use with fff. I use it everywhere except the really high stress areas(wing joints, mainly) and then I use epoxy. One thing I have never understood....the Probond and Gorilla glues are supposed to be basically the same,from what I've heard, yet the stores here charge twice as much for the Gorilla glue. Is it any better?

Randy
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Old Mar 19, 2005, 01:44 AM
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Pasco, Washington
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Randy
I think they are all Polyurethane. I will vouch for the Elmer's at Walmart and its not expensive. BTW I posted in the wrong thread but hope it helps anyway.
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Old Mar 19, 2005, 01:16 PM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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Just got in another short test flight with 3 cell lipo and sp400. It is underpowered with this, but it still manages to fly even in 10mph gusts today. The gusts do bounce it around quite a bit. Climbs out a little shallow, but a good steady climb is no problem. Thrust angle needs tweaking, but I'll wait and go through that with the new motor instead of wasting my time on this one. I'm able to make small slow circles between the trees to land. It just floats down to a gentle plop at my feet! I am cutting a new fuse today out of the 3/4" foam. I am making it an inch longer and also moving the camera mount forward a little to make balancing easier. I am hoping that when the Himaxx gets here that since it's lighter and moving the battery and cam further forward, that it will balance better. I am not flying with the camera yet, just dead weight. It's supposed to start raining this evening and continue so for a couple of days, so I'll be grounded for a while.

Randy
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Old Mar 19, 2005, 06:47 PM
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Thrust angle is definitely wrong.

I got in another test flight this evening with very little wind...only a few mild gusts. I could tell more about the trim and I definitely need to change the thrust angle. It tends to climb out better at half throttle than at full. When at full throttle, I have to input a lot of up elevator, yet when power off and gliding it has way to much up dialed in. If I'm thinking right, I'll need to point the motor down at the front, not prop side. (Am I thinking right?) This thing is a real floater. I could cruise around at almost no throttle without losing altitude. Easy to fly within a tight area, between trees. Landing is almost silly, it's so slow and easy. I got the new, 1" longer fuse cut and the glue is drying on the boom. The pink tongue and groove stuff seems perfect for easy and quick fuse building. Did I mention cheap? Hopefully I will have it ready by the time the new motor gets here.

Randy
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 12:50 PM
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I changed the thrust angle.....

and it flew MUCH better. I wasn't going to mess with it, but the weather turned out nice instead of raining like it was forecast. Winds gusting at 10, but still flew pretty good with the sp400. At WOT it climbed out pretty good and still able to glide well all without trimming any different. No more sudden down thrusts at WOT. Glides forever. Very stable, turns on a dime wihtout any ugly behavior. It does weathervane some in the wind. The BL motor will probably be able to straighten that out some, but it's really not all that bad anyway. That's it for now. I probably won't have much new to tell you until the new motor gets here.


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Old Mar 20, 2005, 08:24 PM
In Thrust We Trust
Norfolk Intl, Virginia, United States
Joined Jul 2004
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Patience Grasshopper. Don't waste anymore time on it until the new motor gets there. Will be worth the wait. You won't believe the difference! And your right about the wing having good slow flight characteristics, its crazy. Heres a taste of what you can expect with that motor and wing on your new build; http://www.tornlogic.com/avov/STVID.wmv from today.
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 09:40 PM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterDog
Patience Grasshopper. Don't waste anymore time on it until the new motor gets there. Will be worth the wait. You won't believe the difference! And your right about the wing having good slow flight characteristics, its crazy. Heres a taste of what you can expect with that motor and wing on your new build; http://www.tornlogic.com/avov/STVID.wmv from today.
LOL. Master, you are right. New fuse is awaiting new motor and I am testing my patience now...as this dial up connection will not give me your video as fast as I would like. Can't wait to see it. I have a feeling this plane is going to do exactly what I want it to do....carry heavy loads, fly in tight areas and land at my feet without a problem. Why do I have a mental picture of David Carradine trying to snatch a brushless motor from the masters hand?

Thanks

Randy
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 10:52 PM
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Pasco, Washington
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Waterdog
Amazing, incredible video, one of the best I've ever seen. Also amazing piloting skills. Thanks for posting it. My buzzugly is (I think) capable of the same flight but my piloting skills aren't yet.
Three questions for you, how did you mount the forward facing camera, how far back from the leading edge do you have the CG and was there a breeze blowing?
You should do a new thread with more detail on the slow tabria, I think there is several people who would appreciate it. I know I would like to compare notes with my buzzugly on it.

Larry
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Old Mar 20, 2005, 11:06 PM
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Chandler, Tx. USA
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Waterdog,

Wow! That ST video is even better than the other one. Amazing. Thanks for sharing!

Randy
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