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View Poll Results: Would you buy this conversion kit?
I'd buy it if it was $200 or less 8 17.02%
I'd buy it if it was $150 or less 15 31.91%
I'd buy it if it was $100 or less 21 44.68%
I don't like Raptors 1 2.13%
I don't like the design 0 0%
I'm not in the market for a 50 sized heli 2 4.26%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Mar 08, 2005, 08:49 PM
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Ben74's Avatar
San Francisco, CA, USA
Joined Jun 2001
2,792 Posts
Cool
Yet another Raptor conversion kit!

i know there are a lot of conversion kits about to be released, but here's my take on it. my goal was to make a complete raptor frame that was both high performance, and cheap. that's what raptors are all about. people buy them because the parts are cheap, and they perform well. why take an affordable helicopter, and put a bunch of expensive carbon fiber all over it? my hope is that this conversion kit might be able to fill the demand for a reasonably priced 50 sized electric helicopter. i tried to keep the parts count and material cost as low as possible. this is not the final design, but it's close.

Features:
- Two piece G10 fiberglass frame. Cheap, ridgid, and light. G10 costs about 1/10th of what carbon fiber costs, and while not quite as stiff, has better impact resistance than carbon.
- Thrust bearings on top and bottom of main shaft. This is a requirement for any type of aerobatic flying, IMO. Without thrust bearings, the main shaft radial bearings deteriorate quickly under hard flying, robbing you of power, and costing you money to replace them.
- 120 degree CCPM. Keeps the heli light and parts count low. I'm using a logo 20 swashplate in the photos, but the kit would include a ring to convert the stock swash to 120 degree.
- Easy battery mounting straps. Couldn't be more convenient.
- Frames extend out past the batteries to protect them in a crash. Don't want to damage those expensive LiPos, right?
- Very ridgid servo mounting. Especially the rudder servo, which is supported on both ends by the frame.
- Machined aluminum bearing blocks, motor mount, and tail boom holders. The motor mount and bottom bearing block are one piece, which keeps everything ridgid and square.
- Motor is mounted high on the frames, which allows the batteries to also be mounted as high as possible. This keeps the center of mass closer to the head, which allows the heli to be more nimble.
- 7lbs, 9oz as pictured with the fiberglass canopy. 7lbs, 11oz with the stock plastic canopy. 5lbs, 6oz without batteries.

Equipment pictured:
- Head, tail, landing gear, shafts, main gear, pulleys all stock
- Motor: Actro 24-3 Heli
- ESC: Hacker 77-O Heli (using throttle curves)
- Rx: Futaba 9ch PCM
- Gyro: gy401 w/ 9253 servo
- 8s3p Thunder Power Gen2 Lites (obsolete)
- UBEC
- Mah 600mm carbon blades
- Mikado 3D paddles

performance is excellent with the actro 24-3 on 8s3p. it's actually better than the 24-4 on 11s2p. i think the 3 turn is just a better wind. it barely gets up to body temp after a hard flight. notice the stickers are still on it . i'll get some video up soon. i also plan to try a "boxed" setup with a Neu 1515/2Y and 10s2p TP Gen2 Pro Lites. this should truly be the ultimate power system. the Box will fit on there perfectly, and the motor will point forward.

at this point, i'm not sure if i want to go through the trouble and expense of putting this kit into production. the raptor conversion market is already a bit saturated. that's why i included a poll with this post. what do you all think? would you buy it, considering all the options out there? i have no idea what the price will be, but i know the material costs will be almost negligible. my hope is that it will be somewhere between 100 and 150, but i am making no promises. thanks for your input.

high res photos are available in my rcgroups member gallery...
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 12:34 AM
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rc-whirlybird's Avatar
Michigan/US
Joined Feb 2003
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Look great...!
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 02:29 AM
Convert!
rroback's Avatar
Los Angeles, CA (UCLA)
Joined Nov 2002
3,889 Posts
It flies super well. I've seen ben fly it a bunch of times. I'd buy it! I need to get my raptor off the ground..

Rhett
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 04:56 AM
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Kraeuterbutter's Avatar
Europe, Austria, Burgenland
Joined Mar 2002
1,774 Posts
very nice protection of the controller and the Lipos..
looks nicer to me than the other conversions i have seen so far..

i would buy this, if i had an raptor to convert...
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 05:27 AM
A man with too many toys
United States
Joined Feb 2001
17,787 Posts
I would definitely give one a try if I could get it for less than $100. Will a standard V2 canopy fit?

Any estimate what the weight would be for a MeuMotors/Box setup?
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 06:21 AM
MODMAXX4748's Avatar
florida
Joined Dec 2003
754 Posts
Looks real Nice Ben
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 08:22 AM
A man with too many toys
United States
Joined Feb 2001
17,787 Posts
I may be possible to improve the CCPM servo geometry is you could angle the side servos. Something like the ECO-8 mounting brackets. This would put the servo arms in the inside and you would have a better 90-degree control system. You may have to notch the canopy but it would be very expectable is you were able to get closer to a 90 degrees on the control arms.

Iím sure you will sell a lot of kits if you can keep the cost in the $100-150 range.



RC
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 10:29 AM
Das Universus Elektrikus
Albig's Avatar
NM, USA
Joined Mar 2002
3,309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Man

Iím sure you will sell a lot of kits if you can keep the cost in the $100-150 range.



RC
Really neat job Ben. I like how you did the motor

I'd just like to put things in perspective for anyone considering doing this.

In the over two years now that several variants of e conversions for Raptors have been commercially available including Gary's fine Boxed plastic Raptor. there has been only slightly more than 150 conversions done that I'm aware of. This doesn't count people doing their own but I guess that # wouldn't contribute significantly to the above stats.

While we're all "consumed" electric enthusiasts. The vast majority of heli pilots are not, especially when you tell them how much it will cost to set up an E-Raptor. Knocking th price of a frame set down to a 100 bucks doesn't really move the total down much from the 2000 to 2500 one will have in these things and that doesn't count flight packs and chargers.

It's our passion that causes us to believe that everyone appreciates the degree of performance we've acheived with E-Power. But believe me we can continue to smoke the IC crowd but until were talking cost for a 600mm bird in the 1000 to 1500 dollar range all inclusive were kinda pissin into the wind.

Ben how many hours do you think that you and Gary have invested already into the conversion racket. I personally have invested so much time that wouldn't feel fully compensated if a check for 40 grand showed up in my mail box tommorow. Had I invested all that time into my regular job I would have earned that much at least.

This particular niche market of big electric helis is so small that it can not support the kind of low prices that it demands. Even if you could sell them at 100 bucks and keep 50 in your pocket from each sale you'd still have to do hundreds of sales to make it worth while and that won't happen until there is a major sea change in the price of this technology.

Who knows it could happen tomorrow, but I'm not betting on it

Al
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Goodyear Litchfield, Arizona, United States
Joined Apr 2004
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Hi Ben
That looks great, and is in line with my present thinking of downsizing to 600 size. The power systems get real expensive when you go 700. Bring it to the Phoenix FF this weekend. I want to see it.
Ben Burns
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 01:14 PM
1.21 Gigawatts!
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Irvine, CA, USA
Joined Oct 2000
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Ben where do I send paypal?
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 03:30 PM
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Ben74's Avatar
San Francisco, CA, USA
Joined Jun 2001
2,792 Posts
thanks for the compliments everyone.

al, i hear you. i know there's no money to be made in conversion kits. there are really so few electric fliers compared to the overall heli market, which itself is relatively tiny. someday the technology will be affordable, but i agree that it won't be any time soon. i guess we do it because we love the hobby. it's certainly not going to make us rich.

rc man, i agree it would be nice to have the pushrods at 90 degrees, but it doesn't really seem to harm the flight characterstics. i'm not a pro, but i'm a decent pilot, and i find that this raptor flies just as good as any other CCPM machine i've flown. even the venerable joker uses a servo layout that is very similar, and we all know what a great flier the joker is.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 04:05 PM
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plasmaman's Avatar
Waukegan Memorial, Illinois, United States
Joined Sep 2003
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Rappe

What kind of straps hold the batteries? Is there any Velcro attached to the packs?

It would be nice if the packs could fit inside the frames like a Logo 10 or 14.

Bruce
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 04:08 PM
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San Francisco, CA, USA
Joined Jun 2001
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the packs are held on via "watchband" type velcro straps. if you look closely at the high res photos in my gallery, you should be able to see them. there are two pieces of foam between the pack and the frame, which compress when you cinch down the straps and hold the batteries tightly. they don't slide at all, even when doing piroflips
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 08:43 PM
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Fresno Terminal, California, United States
Joined Jul 2004
305 Posts
I like it. Nice job Ben. You should bring it to the "Vertical Challange, Heli Fun Fly" we're having in Madera next month. Bring an extra kit for me too!
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 08:47 PM
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Michigan/US
Joined Feb 2003
59 Posts
Hi all !
Just wonder any diffrence of control feeling between the stock Raptor mixing and converted CCPM. Which is faster and sensitive..?
Thanks !
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