HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 03, 2010, 03:44 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeby View Post
A few years back, jepe also build a rafale, which was twin minifan powered....
Yes that has worked pretty well.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=474 (this is JePe Rafale, sold to & crashed by bmaa)

But remember, they don't carry retracts so the Rafale is quite a bit lighter.

A better compromise might be an HW-609 (75mm) or 620 (85mm) fan.

Remember for anything < 90mm you have to make/adapt your own ducts ...

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Sep 03, 2010 at 03:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 03, 2010, 03:57 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
... Then there's always the turbine option (> 200mph)

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 04, 2010, 03:39 AM
Registered User
Holland
Joined Apr 2003
145 Posts
i choose for minifan setup, because of having motors/controllers at home, which will fit the minifan. But are to small to fitting a HW609 or 620.

Also the battery packs will not be good for a fit whit the HW609 or 620.
Where i fly, we don't have a nice landings-strip. But green grass.
When fitting retracts, i think the weight of the plane will be to much, for having a nice flying rafale.

Making new ducts is not the problem. I made them for my 90mm edf eliminator.
First cut them from foam. Just straight. Then make cuts in the side, for making nice bends in the ducting. Sand it smoot, and fit shrinking sleeve. Then the glass on it, and there will be some nice clean ducts
Hoeby is offline Find More Posts by Hoeby
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 06, 2010, 02:37 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeby View Post
... Making new ducts is not the problem. ...
Sounds good then ... Some enjoy duct making more than others ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 09:17 AM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Edit, found the info I was looking for and received some info from Wemotec.

So, now my question is, how difficult is this to get to a correct CG on a twin 90mm with retracts? Is it a must to have the batteries fit between the ducting? I would like to use dual 6s 3000mah or single 6s 5000mah.
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by techspy; Dec 22, 2010 at 10:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 02:39 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Plenty of space in there for batteries

I fly mine now on a 12S 3300 configuration.

The pack is configured as 4 x 3S, so that they can be stacked on top of each other bewteen the ducts. Each 6S feeds one motor/fan.

You could slide one half of the pack further back (there's really nothing in the way till you hit the twin fan former), but then the problem is the forward half-pack is sitting over the retract opening & steering servo - at least on mine - and the canopy tub is in the way too.

That is why I prefer to stack all the packs on top of each other at the center. I have them tightly strapped together & secured with velcro.

It is also crucial on the Rafale and other deltas to put the pack in at exactly the same spot every time, so as to get exactly the same CG ...

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Dec 22, 2010 at 02:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 02:45 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Thanks Herb. Seems Wemotec are out of these until mid January. I will probably be ordering one around that time. I had a Flyeagle Rafale that I tried to convert to a Stumax 110 single but the lack of intake ducting did me in and I sold it. This one looks a lot more straight forward.

Not interested in selling one of yours are you? By the way, I saw you mentioned a Hobby City motor that was working well with the midi on 6s. Can you link to the motor? I am currently using an HET 600-32 on 6s pushing about 1800 watts and although many have had issues running it on 6s, I have probably 100 flights on it and it is still running strong. I will probably stay with that combination but would like to have an idea of another motor that could be used.

Thanks again.

John
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 02:59 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by techspy View Post
... I had a Flyeagle Rafale that I tried to convert to a Stumax 110 single but the lack of intake ducting did me in and I sold it. This one looks a lot more straight forward.

Not interested in selling one of yours are you?
John glad I could help ... Yes not having ducting is a performance killer, in 2010 they should ot be allowed to sell EDFs without ducting.

Not selling mine, but you are not the first one to ask that question


Quote:
Originally Posted by techspy View Post
.... By the way, I saw you mentioned a Hobby City motor that was working well with the midi on 6s. Can you link to the motor? I am currently using an HET 600-32 on 6s pushing about 1800 watts and although ...
The HETs are pretty solid motors (Mega clones, I don't have the 600 series though). The new 700 series looks even better (Neu inspired) but they are 40mm diam so they need the new HET fan or similar.

In the relatively low-cost region I would look at HET and ARC (as opposed to Neu which I think is higher quality) . The HC motors I have been using are these:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=6526

Why these have lasted one and a half years flying several times almost every weekend at 1500+ Watts I don't know ... I even have two replacements/spares in the box
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:05 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Great info. Thanks again Herb.

One last (well probably not the last, but one more anyway) question..

Do you think these would be a sufficient set of retracts? As in size etc?

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=7998
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:11 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Not sure .. they are 510 grams

I have Springair 602's in both of my Rafales and they hold pressure for a month

www.retracts.com

Other quality options are Jet1a, Behotec C21's, maybe HET or Sapac retracts if the can handle 8+ lbs.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:14 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Ahh, ok, good to see the weight of yours for comparison. I have used and still use a set of Springairs and like them a lot. I just wish they were more readily available. Just checked the website and they, and the website are down for a month for vacation...
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:18 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
http://www.effluxrc.com/AIR_c32.htm

http://www.altecare.com/retracts.htm
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 22, 2010, 03:20 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Wow, prices have come down since I bought mine. Thanks for the link
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23, 2010, 02:35 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Rafale landing gear detail ...

The Rafale M ("M" for Marine) has I think a stronger gear, to handle carrier landings, than the Rafale C (black proto below).

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Dec 23, 2010 at 02:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:07 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Hey Herb, Do you have any picts from the outside bottom of the gear retracted?

Got my Rafale ordered but will be mid, late Jan before it arrives.

Thanks
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24, 2010, 10:44 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
rafale ordered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techspy View Post
Hey Herb, Do you have any picts from the outside bottom of the gear retracted?

Got my Rafale ordered but will be mid, late Jan before it arrives.

Thanks
Techspy, where did you order your Rafale from? Was it a Twin 90 or Single 120 that you ordered?
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24, 2010, 11:13 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Twin, wemotec.com
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2010, 06:38 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
power setup

Ordered a Twin 90 Rafale.

This is what I was thinking about as far as setup.

Wemotec Midi fans with ARC 36-55-2.5 motors
CC HV85 ESCs
8S 4200 35C
Spring Air 602s
Hitec HS-82MGs on the Elevons

Should be able to come in just under 7lbs.

I am thinking that these 36-55-2.5s should produce just under 2000W with about maybe possibly 3Kg thrust, I think. Does this sound about right or are my numbers off?
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2010, 05:31 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,853 Posts
You could put a pair of these in your twin 90mm Rafale

use the no vat toggle for a price of ~€159 for non European union sales

Alex
like2fly! is offline Find More Posts by like2fly!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2010, 10:16 AM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
I will be using a pair of Midi fans on 6s each with an HET 600-32. Approx 1800 watts each.
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2010, 03:01 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
The two JePe fans look like a nice plug & play setup - I haven't heard of anybody burning up those motors yet .

The HET or Arc motors look like a good options too, plenty of choices available these days compared to what was available a few years ago...

Some time ago I was playing around with the idea of a twin DS-51 setup - but was put off by the price (significantly more than the airframe itself ! ).
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2010, 05:13 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Actually I am having second thoughts about using the 600-32 on 6s. I am thinking that the one I have been using is a fluke and I am not sure I can get another 600-32 to last on 6s. So, I am thinking of going with 2 ARC 3655-1.5. So is $86 about the best price I am going to find on these?
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2010, 05:30 PM
Registered User
Dallas, TX
Joined May 2009
54 Posts
What about the arc 3665? Should see about 2kw each on 6s...(I actually forgot what the test numbers were, but around 2kw), they will run you more $ however...

Zach
DEATHTRON is offline Find More Posts by DEATHTRON
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 26, 2010, 05:33 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Yeah actually I was just watching the ERC Mirage running on that...nice! But, what kind of lipos would be needed for that? I was thinking about using 2 6s 3000, one for each motor, but I don't think that would be enough for the 3665. I guess the limiting factor is what is the most battery you can put in without being too heavy and being able to use retracts? Maybe 2 6s 4000? If not, 2 6s 3300?
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:30 AM
Registered User
Dallas, TX
Joined May 2009
54 Posts
No Idea to be honest with you. Seems like the motor has not go as much love as the 36-75. But I would imagine you would have to go shorter on flights with something in the 3200mah range. Guess it just depends on what you want, because we all want those 15minute full throttle flights...but that' the trade you make with EDF.

Zach
DEATHTRON is offline Find More Posts by DEATHTRON
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 06:56 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,853 Posts
2000 watts on 6s is about 95amps give or take, so firstly you need controller's (or controller if you use one Kontronik Jazz/Jive to run both) with good headroom (unless you put it in the exhaust), and secondly 3000mAh lipos will be running at 95/30=32C at full throttle. If you leave the conventional 20% in your pack for longevity, that leaves 2400mAh to play with (a side), at 32C you'd use 2400mAh in just under 2 minutes, not that you fly full throttle all the time
like2fly! is offline Find More Posts by like2fly!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 07:04 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,853 Posts
What about 2 high powered minifans? or one high powered 90mm? such as a midi fan with an ARC 36-75-1.5 on 12s for 3500+ watts or one of these new beauties?
like2fly! is offline Find More Posts by like2fly!
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:05 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
90mm ducting

Quote:
Originally Posted by like2fly! View Post
What about 2 high powered minifans? or one high powered 90mm? such as a midi fan with an ARC 36-75-1.5 on 12s for 3500+ watts or one of these new beauties?
A high powered single 90mm may not be a bad idea. Could help with the retract installation. Does anyone make single 90mm ducting for the aeronaut rafale?
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 12:21 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,739 Posts
They make a single 120mm version that has retracts as standard. I think Stu's 100 mm fan would be awesome in the Rafale and be easier to retrofit.
Robert Belluomini is online now Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 01:01 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Adding to what Bob said,

The Rafale single 120mm was designed from the start for retracts. There's a lot more space on the sides for them to fit in, the formers are nicely laser pre-cut, and the retract units fit right in. Putting the retracts in place is a very straightforward job. The basic geardoor design is also very simple, effective and lightweight (kiss).

In the case of the Rafale twin quite a bit more work is required to get the retracts to fit, you have to cut your own formers (in fact in this version of the kit you have to cut all ply formers). Consequently this route involves quite a bit more work, no comparison to the the single. If you look at some of the pictures in this thread and the one that preceded it you will see what's involved ...

Some more differences have to do eg with the location of the batts, on the single you can't move that batts too far back due to the bifurcated inlet. Which can mean that if you end up noseheavy it's not easy to correct. On the twins the issue is not there. These are minor points, but to keep in mind when you look eg at motor weights.

As far as performance is concerned, the two (single vs twin) are very closely matched, the Aeronaut Turbofan 4000 is a superb design. You can find lots of videos of the two setups on youtube. In the end, for quality fans & motors, it's the Watts that count More than ca. 3000W in the Aeronaut Rafale is silly ...

Regarding the questions about battery size (capacity) in the twin, that of course depend not just on the size & weight but also on the form factor. I can't fit a 12S 4000 (3S x 4) pack in mine whereas a 12S 3000 fits. If you can find long and thin 4000 packs that issue goes largely away. I would suggest waiting on the packs till you have the airframe ready so you have an idea of where to put what size packs to get the CG correctly.

Btw looking at previous posts, the Rafale is a very lightweight airframe (ca 7.5 lbs rtf) , so it does not need full power all the time! I get 5 mins easily with throttle management & plenty reserve left. I want my packs to stay cool and last a long time ...

Also as far as what fans to use, keep in mind that the twin ductings are for 2 x 90mm (WeMoTec Midifans, TF2000, JePe Spiderfan, HET 90, DS-51 etc) fans. If you use a different size then you have a fan - duct mismatch . Same story on the single, the ducts were designed for a single 120mm fan (Aeronaut TF4000, DS-94 etc). Better to stick with the fan size the ducts were designed for ?

You can spend a ton of money on fancy looking fans and then -surprise surprise - find out the performance is just about the same as with twin WeMo's ... to oversimplify, a prop is a prop, don't expects miracles when you switch out a high quality fan (eg WeMoTec) for another that costs eg five times as much. You will get back a few percentages in efficiency, at best. The problem is more acute for the twin, where you have to buy two. In the end it's a matter of taste and preference, of course it's a hobby but the physics is what it is .

If I were to look for a proven, relatively low cost but good quality foolproof setup for the twin, I would go with the twin WeMoTecs that JePe sells, or something similar to it. On the single the obvious choice is the TF4000 or DS-94 which are perfect (both done before) ?
.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Dec 27, 2010 at 02:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 27, 2010, 03:46 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Thanks for all the info Herb. BTW, do you have any pictures of the main gear retracted?
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 13, 2011, 12:07 PM
Registered User
techspy's Avatar
USA, NC, Matthews
Joined Aug 2008
3,249 Posts
Just an FYI, per Wemotec they should be able to ship the Rafales soon as Aero-naut was closed until the 10th of this month for the holidays. Also, I just ordered a set of Springair 602's directly from Springair and am getting all 3 as nose gear to try rotating mains. Cost is about $150 with all 3 as nose gear. Additionally, there is more clearance over the piston tube on the nose gear so struts should clear without an issue.
techspy is offline Find More Posts by techspy
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Esprit Saga
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2011, 09:50 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2002
301 Posts
Herb I know you probably stated this already but I just finished up a 120 Rafale for the electric festival and I determined from the scaled plan that the CG is 112mm from the wing LE meeting the fuse. Can you verify that?

Mike
old p47 is offline Find More Posts by old p47
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2011, 12:10 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,739 Posts
A 90-45 with a 1515/2Y on 10S 3300-5000's would be a very sweet setup.
I think I would make it a single exhaust between the scale outlets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by like2fly! View Post
What about 2 high powered minifans? or one high powered 90mm? such as a midi fan with an ARC 36-75-1.5 on 12s for 3500+ watts or one of these new beauties?
Robert Belluomini is online now Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2011, 12:22 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,739 Posts
Herb what is the inlet area on the Rafale?
Robert Belluomini is online now Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:13 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2009
166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by old p47 View Post
Herb I know you probably stated this already but I just finished up a 120 Rafale for the electric festival and I determined from the scaled plan that the CG is 112mm from the wing LE meeting the fuse. Can you verify that?

Mike
Hi Mike,

110mm from the LE is in the plan from Aeronaut.
I fly her with 110mm, and i think its perfekt!
shamu is offline Find More Posts by shamu
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:21 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2002
301 Posts
Thanks Shamu one other thing I rig the canards up. I have them on a switch so they are stationary on setting one and then they operate on setting 2 any ideas on how much travel and what to expect out of useing carnards. I have them mixed with the elevator travel and the elevators rudder and alerons are all set to per instruction travel
Mike
old p47 is offline Find More Posts by old p47
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2011, 02:24 AM
Registered User
MaHö's Avatar
Deutschland, BW, Friedrichshafen
Joined Dec 2001
889 Posts
The Rafale works fine with one 100mm fan.
Aeronaut Rafale - 4. Impellertreffen Hamburg (5 min 32 sec)

Franks setup.
6S 3200mAh Mega 22/30/2E and own design 100mm fan. weight I think was 2,6kg.

regards Martin
MaHö is offline Find More Posts by MaHö
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2011, 11:58 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by old p47 View Post
Herb ... I determined from the scaled plan that the CG is 112mm from the wing LE meeting the fuse. Can you verify that? Mike
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=583

I fly with a CG of ca. 120mm, on mine the instruction CG is a bit too far forward (noseheavy). I flew it again at this CG this past Saturday.

I suggest you start out with a slightly forward CG, and then move back slowly in small steps.

My setup is 12S 3000's (6S+6S), and I have some very clear markings on where exactly the batts need to be placed.

Not much space in there for anything else !

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jan 27, 2011 at 12:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2011, 12:06 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Belluomini View Post
Herb what is the inlet area on the Rafale?
I measured it at around 41cm2, or 80% FSA for a 90mm (eg DS-51) fan.

I have the twin outlets restricted as well, same diam as on the JePe F-16.

In the original Aeronaut molds the outlets are a bit too large for today's faster & more powerful setups.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Apr 18, 2011 at 11:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2011, 03:16 PM
Registered User
Finland
Joined Jul 2004
682 Posts
Is this any good plane for grass runway operations? I was thinking 120mm setup with larger tires and working F-18 like struts , maybe with rotating retracts to get wheelsize up. Whats the "largest" scalelike tiresize I could think about putting in ?

Herb, you seem to know this one, enlighten me!
Ceeray is offline Find More Posts by Ceeray
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2011, 01:49 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2009
166 Posts
I use the kit tires from Aeronaut with Behotec struts.
Starts and landing on grass is no problem with the 120mm setup :-)
shamu is offline Find More Posts by shamu
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2011, 07:22 AM
Registered User
Finland
Joined Jul 2004
682 Posts
Thanks for the pic, Shamu! Looks neat!

Could I bother you to measure up the size of tires and could you please check out how much more room there would be in case of bigger tires?

Too many choices to make now... I just want a bigger EDF plane and with retracts now.
Foamy or Glassed.. twin or single.. aaargh!

1.3m lenght and 94cm wingspan is a bit smallish , I would prefer 1.5m-1.7m lenght with 1-1.2m wingspan. That way it would be definately bigger than current foamies.

Also, 120mm fan in this size aircraft is an overkill , 100mm would be enough, even single 90mm would do the job...
Ceeray is offline Find More Posts by Ceeray
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2011, 11:44 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceeray View Post
Is this any good plane for grass runway operations? I was thinking 120mm setup with larger tires and working F-18 like struts , maybe with rotating retracts to get wheelsize up. Whats the "largest" scalelike tiresize I could think about putting in ?

Herb, you seem to know this one, enlighten me!
I take off from short grass all the time, smaller wheels are no problem if the grass is short, do a search on youtube under "Aeronaut Rafale".

The composite airframe is very lightweight (850g or so) and if you keep the weight down if will take off from short grass in less than 30m or so (100 feet). Twin 90mm or single 120mm makes no difference, just go with the appropriate duct & corresponding fan size, both work execeedingly well !

My tires have fluctuated around 3-4cm, when you have the model in your hands you will be able to see that larger tires can cause problem with clearance on retraction. Rotating retracts means looking for trouble, they tend to be more delicate Also I would suggest having a good size steel coil on all three of your legs.

As far as the foamies are concerned, believe me there is really no comparison in performance once you go past internet flying.

Good luck with it !
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2011, 12:12 PM
Registered User
Finland
Joined Jul 2004
682 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
Twin 90mm or single 120mm makes no difference, just go with the appropriate duct & corresponding fan size, both work execeedingly well !
Thanks for the info!

Just to clarify: Does current twin 90mm version have also retract doors and bulkheads already included? Or is that only 120mm version has been made retract-ready from the start?

There is a big price difference between 120mm and 2x90mm version, 439€ vs 269€. Of course you would have to buy double set of everything for twin but 90mm fans cost 100€ together, 120mm costs 240€..

The only thing I like about foamies is that they are easy to repair and make modifications to, but to keep them looking good you would either have to glass them or cover with brown paper. And paint again. I just hate hangar rash.
Ceeray is offline Find More Posts by Ceeray
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 27, 2011, 02:09 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Only the 120mm version is retract-ready ... The twin 90mm version requires substantial additional work for the retract installation.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 27, 2011, 06:56 PM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceeray View Post
Thanks for the pic, Shamu! Looks neat!

Could I bother you to measure up the size of tires and could you please check out how much more room there would be in case of bigger tires?

Too many choices to make now... I just want a bigger EDF plane and with retracts now.
Foamy or Glassed.. twin or single.. aaargh!

1.3m lenght and 94cm wingspan is a bit smallish , I would prefer 1.5m-1.7m lenght with 1-1.2m wingspan. That way it would be definately bigger than current foamies.

Also, 120mm fan in this size aircraft is an overkill , 100mm would be enough, even single 90mm would do the job...
Scroll up to post #1038! Everything you suggest is there, 100mm fan, 2.6kg ready to fly! And a nice video from grass

This is a classic great kit and super light
like2fly! is offline Find More Posts by like2fly!
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2011, 04:03 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
And a nice video of two of them doing formation flying :

.

Aeronaut Rafale Staffelflug Nordhausen 2011 (6 min 37 sec)
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; May 24, 2011 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 02, 2011, 10:27 AM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
Twin 70mm Aeronaut Rafale

Started working on this 70mm twin this week. Will post pics along the way.

The wood parts on the lower left in the first pic are from that difficult to cut wood plate. I had them laser cut by someone else. The second pic has cockpit parts from the softer cutout plate.
These wood pieces in the first two pics are the only ones that I think will be needed for the build.
The third pic shows the 90mm ducts modified to use 70mm Wemo MiniFans. I plan to use:

Wemo MiniFan Pro ducted fans x2
Het 2W-23 motors with ICE Lite ESCs in the tube x2
Either 4S 4000 (40C) or 5S 3300 (30C) lipo x2

I also plan to add SpringAir 602 retracts.
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2011, 04:21 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyregfly View Post
[...]
Wemo MiniFan Pro ducted fans x2
Het 2W-23 motors with ICE Lite ESCs in the tube x2
Either 4S 4000 (40C) or 5S 3300 (30C) lipo x2

I also plan to add SpringAir 602 retracts.
Yes that german plywood is a bitch to cut. Looks like your setup should work ... the 2W-23 needs 5 cells at least, your 4S setup won't work in the Rafale. I found the Arc's to be a good alternative to the Het's, or the e-flite edf motors.

Glad to see you went with the Springairs, still the best retracts out there for this weight class

Bruce's pictures from last Sunday (7/10/2011), he really had a hard time getting a decent picture no matter how slow I would fly it

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 12, 2011 at 12:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 14, 2011, 07:51 AM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
Rafale coming along...

Did some more work on the Rafale. Landing gear locations and mounting sorted. HS-125MGs for the elevons mounted and ready for installation in the wings. Using Hysol 9462 for all the wood to fiberglass joints, except the wing root former, will use regular epoxy for that and the other joints....
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:32 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
she's got legs.... finally

did some more work on the rafale....


i am really nervous about the live hinging for the elevons. what is the best way to prevent separation of the elevons because of a failure of the live hinging?
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Last edited by flyregfly; Jul 25, 2011 at 07:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2011, 02:21 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Looks good ... she should be flying in no time

I never had any problem with the elevon hinges on the Rafale, after all they move just by a tiny bit I think (from memory) +-5mm or so.

Have you thought about using hinge tape top and bottom. Either the Graupner brand which is what I used, or the Blenderm equivalent. The latter does not take paint well, it won't stick.

I also have hinge gap tape to seal the gap on the wing bottom, I have a picture of that somewhere.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 26, 2011, 04:51 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2009
166 Posts
Nice work, i also never had a problem with the live hinges on the elevons of the Rafale.
shamu is offline Find More Posts by shamu
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 12:27 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
almost done...

Just have to secure the front ducts at the inlets and add the rear ducts, and maybe some paint for the maiden. AUW is around 7lbs, more than I expected, but anyway....
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2011, 02:20 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Looks good !

I would try to limit the amount of junk hanging in the duct, it will rob you of performance. Maybe you can put some sort of fairing around it?

Just finished freshening up the paint a bit on mine, three coats of future can do miracles

The original semi-gloss finish on the black one was a bit more scale, but boy did it attract dust at the field

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 07, 2011, 01:01 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
Looks good !

I would try to limit the amount of junk hanging in the duct, it will rob you of performance. Maybe you can put some sort of fairing around it?

Just finished freshening up the paint a bit on mine, three coats of future can do miracles

The original semi-gloss finish on the black one was a bit more scale, but boy did it attract dust at the field

.
Thanks. I use the same ESC in the thrust tube configuration in my 4+ lb Viper with reasonable results, so I think it should suffice for the Rafale.

Did some taxi tests today and it looks like the tracking is pretty good. I was concerned about a single nose wheel because I have had stability issues with my F-22 with a single nose wheel, but then again I wasn't using 602s in the F-22.

It is truly amazing how pristine your Rafales remain, even after all this time. I'll be lucky if mine returns from the maiden in one piece.

I think I am going to go with the factory CG recommendation for the first flight and then move it back to your 28.7cm (from intake lip) point recommendation later.

This is my first delta (not first elevon controlled plane), any advice on rotation and climbout?
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 08, 2011, 02:22 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
My recollection is that the CG in the instruction is a bit too far forward ... the Rafale will fly fine but the landing will be hot. I suggest you use my CG or somewhere close to it ?

Also, as you will see somewhere in the previous pages, the elevons need to be flat on top and angled from the bottom, this is a kind of built-in reflex that is needed for most delta planforms.

The Rafale airframe is very light and will take off no problem from short grass ...but like all deltas it needs a good pull on the elevator to get unstuck from the ground when it reaches good speed. It will certainly not rotate by itself and needs a good pull.

That is why you need to pay good attention to the elevator throw, I think it's twice the aileron throw? You will need all that elevator throw on landing as well.

My Rafale have had their share of dings and mishaps. The grey one still has molten lipo pcb solder embedded in the fuse bottom. The black one veered off the runway and hit a steel post with the left canard when one of the mains did not come out on landing. The grey one flipped over in a strong crosswind and folded and cracked the fin. The black one had it's balsa canopy tub cracked in half and shredded from the nosegear opening air pressure when it flew too fast, luckily the canopy landed in the grass. A main gear cracked trough the fuse and duct on a hard landing about a year ago. All wingtip pylons have been cracked or broken at one time, at home or at the field . Both Rafales have been completely re-motored once. The fans have been replaced once as well because of too many chipped blades. The Aeronaut Rafale with that low intake loves to suck in dirt

Hope this helps, HWH

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Aug 08, 2011 at 02:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 08, 2011, 02:38 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2009
166 Posts
I fly my Rafale with the CG at 110mm from the LE of the wing.
It lands perfekt, you will need plenty of Elevtor up for landings :-)
shamu is offline Find More Posts by shamu
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 08, 2011, 08:00 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
Herb, shamu,

thanks for the advice guys
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2011, 02:34 PM
Registered User
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined Apr 2009
191 Posts
Maidened... finally.

Got an early start this morning to maiden my Rafale. Maiden went ok, a little bit tail heavy, so takeoff rotation and climbout was uneventful. Power was plentiful with the twin 70mm powerplant. I've been interested in flying one of these Rafales for so long I can't believe its finally flying. Now to add some paint. A flat grey is what I was thinking. Will shift the batteries forward a bit for tomorrow's flight. Here are some pics I took after the maiden.
flyregfly is offline Find More Posts by flyregfly
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2011, 10:42 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Excellent ! glad to hear all went well.

Took these pictures yesterday afternoon of the Rafale A at Le Bourget airport in Paris.

Fantastic collection of Mirages (Mirage III, IV, 2000, 4000 etc), Mystere, Ouragan etc. there as well.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Aug 28, 2011 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2011, 12:11 PM
Registered User
Mikael's Avatar
Sollentuna,Sweden
Joined Sep 2000
434 Posts
Herb

Thanks for the pictures. It's exactly what I needed, I'm going to paint my Avonds Rafale A after flying season.

Mikael
Mikael is offline Find More Posts by Mikael
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 04, 2011, 07:10 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
It's too bad we can't have smoke cartridges on our electrics, it makes aerobatic maneuvers so much more impressive

The video below was taken two weeks ago in Sion, nice loop on takeoff, have to try that one day I usually just do a vertical roll on takeoff

Sion Airshow 2011 - Dassault Rafale -Full-HD- (5 min 24 sec)
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2012, 10:10 AM
Registered User
Ελλάς, Κρήτη, Γορτύνας
Joined Jul 2011
8 Posts
hello i am looking plans balsa for eurofighter jet 90mm fan (free or buy)can you help me?
giorgi22bm87 is offline Find More Posts by giorgi22bm87
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 06:03 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Hi there, JC (Bidule here on RCG) built a Rafale from plans some time ago

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=2#post7335149

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1252711

I think it was an Eddie Stahlie (spelling?) plan ? You might want to contact him (JC) directly ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 06:05 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
My friend Guy Hahn took a nice HD video of the Rafale twin 90mm a few weeks ago, thanks Guy !

.

Aeronaut Rafale Twin 90mm - Takeoff after sundown (4 min 18 sec)
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20, 2012, 09:38 AM
Registered User
Buccaneer Driver's Avatar
Cambridgeshire
Joined Feb 2006
260 Posts
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2510903337...#ht_879wt_1270
Buccaneer Driver is offline Find More Posts by Buccaneer Driver
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2012, 02:18 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
That looks like a good deal ! It seems all the bits are there.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2012, 03:39 PM
Registered User
Buccaneer Driver's Avatar
Cambridgeshire
Joined Feb 2006
260 Posts
Herb, I believe the fwd part of the intakes are missing. I was going to make a custom fit one using blue foam. The fuz, wings etc are in really good condition.
Buccaneer Driver is offline Find More Posts by Buccaneer Driver
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2012, 03:39 PM
Registered User
Jacques.Eloff's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Cobham
Joined Oct 2007
556 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccaneer Driver View Post
Why selling?

Ok, just saw the explanation!
Jacques.Eloff is offline Find More Posts by Jacques.Eloff
Last edited by Jacques.Eloff; Jun 22, 2012 at 04:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2012, 04:39 AM
Registered User
Buccaneer Driver's Avatar
Cambridgeshire
Joined Feb 2006
260 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques.Eloff View Post
Why selling?

Ok, just saw the explanation!
Wife !!

I've not flown anything in a good while, and I still have a half built Flair Mossie (could be next on the for sale list), unbuilt Lancaster, half finished Mig15 propjet and finally a quarter bullt Blackburn Buccaneer all ahead of the Rafale.
Buccaneer Driver is offline Find More Posts by Buccaneer Driver
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2012, 05:15 AM
Registered User
Jacques.Eloff's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Cobham
Joined Oct 2007
556 Posts
The missing intakes parts - are these the same as the parts shown in post #404?

If so, I could swear that I can see them in one of your pics (the pic with the dog!).

Or are you referring to something else?

Jacques
Jacques.Eloff is offline Find More Posts by Jacques.Eloff
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2012, 05:34 AM
Registered User
Buccaneer Driver's Avatar
Cambridgeshire
Joined Feb 2006
260 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques.Eloff View Post
The missing intakes parts - are these the same as the parts shown in post #404?

If so, I could swear that I can see them in one of your pics (the pic with the dog!).

Or are you referring to something else?

Jacques
Those are the intake lips, which are with the kit.
Buccaneer Driver is offline Find More Posts by Buccaneer Driver
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2012, 05:49 AM
Registered User
Buccaneer Driver's Avatar
Cambridgeshire
Joined Feb 2006
260 Posts
Just looked thru the posts Jacques and I thought the missing part was similar to the intakes in post 1049, but I believe now I just have an earlier version of the kit which have f/g and polystyrene intakes.
Buccaneer Driver is offline Find More Posts by Buccaneer Driver
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2012, 02:46 PM
Registered User
Jacques.Eloff's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Cobham
Joined Oct 2007
556 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
That looks like a good deal ! It seems all the bits are there.
Herb (or anyone else familiar with this model) hoping you can help here: can you take a look at the pics on ebay - specifically the ones showing the intake ducts:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2510903337...#ht_879wt_1270

As you can see from the seller's posts upthread, he believes that either the front sections of the ducts are missing, or that it is an "earlier version of the kit which have f/g and polystyrene intakes".

From pics posted by others in this thread (eg post #1049) it does look like the ducts have separate front sections, which may be missing from this particular kit.

Can you comment? I would really like to take this model, and I am a reasonably adept builder, but my glassing experience is limited to repairing the odd bit of damage to composites. I don't really want to get into moulding/shaping work, etc.

Any comments/advice/opinion will be appreciated.

Jacques
Jacques.Eloff is offline Find More Posts by Jacques.Eloff
Last edited by Jacques.Eloff; Jun 23, 2012 at 02:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2012, 04:11 PM
Anything that gives me a High
super kupfer's Avatar
Canada, BC, Richmond
Joined Jan 2010
1,574 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques.Eloff View Post
Herb (or anyone else familiar with this model) hoping you can help here: can you take a look at the pics on ebay - specifically the ones showing the intake ducts:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2510903337...#ht_879wt_1270

As you can see from the seller's posts upthread, he believes that either the front sections of the ducts are missing, or that it is an "earlier version of the kit which have f/g and polystyrene intakes".

From pics posted by others in this thread (eg post #1049) it does look like the ducts have separate front sections, which may be missing from this particular kit.

Can you comment? I would really like to take this model, and I am a reasonably adept builder, but my glassing experience is limited to repairing the odd bit of damage to composites. I don't really want to get into moulding/shaping work, etc.

Any comments/advice/opinion will be appreciated.

Jacques

I have the 120mm version (the kevlar version) and the intake setup looks the same, the pictures do show all composite parts needed but i can't say the same for the wood parts but that shouldnt be hard to fabricate.

Good luck.
super kupfer is offline Find More Posts by super kupfer
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:32 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques.Eloff View Post
Herb (or anyone else familiar with this model) hoping you can help here: can you take a look at the pics on ebay - specifically the ones showing the intake ducts ...Jacques
Hi, as far as I can tell all the bits are there. The intakes are btw FG, not plastic from what I recall.

I don't remember anything else being needed for the intakes.

It is nice that all the wood has already been cut out

The fan & retract installation is simpler for the single. Hope this helps, HWH.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jun 25, 2012 at 08:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 25, 2012, 10:17 PM
Anything that gives me a High
super kupfer's Avatar
Canada, BC, Richmond
Joined Jan 2010
1,574 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb View Post
Hi, as far as I can tell all the bits are there. The intakes are btw FG, not plastic from what I recall.

I don't remember anything else being needed for the intakes.

It is nice that all the wood has already been cut out

The fan & retract installation is simpler for the single. Hope this helps, HWH.

.
Wooooooooo, the single Stu looks siiiiiiiiiick.....I like.

Which Stu unit is that???? Still haven't made my mind on what unit i'm going to power my rafale.........then again Im still working on my YA F16 so we have time.
super kupfer is offline Find More Posts by super kupfer
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2012, 01:12 AM
Registered User
Jacques.Eloff's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Cobham
Joined Oct 2007
556 Posts
Thanks for your replies, super kupfer and Herb. I have a £100 bid on the kit.

Jacques
Jacques.Eloff is offline Find More Posts by Jacques.Eloff
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2012, 04:42 AM
Registered User
Buccaneer Driver's Avatar
Cambridgeshire
Joined Feb 2006
260 Posts
Seems to be a bit of interest in it, got quite a few watching at the moment. Maybe should have put a buy it now on there as well.
Buccaneer Driver is offline Find More Posts by Buccaneer Driver
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2012, 12:34 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Incidentally, original Rafale cockpit tubs and canopies are available as spares here:

http://shop.wemotec.com/index.php?k=42

http://shop.wemotec.com/index.php?k=30

http://shop.wemotec.com/index.php?a=153

I keep a new extra canopy myself.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 04:15 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Recently I have been flying the Rafale later in the afternoon ... since it's been rather hot during the day

I got these inexpensive (but well made) lights installed from rcl, the installation is temporary for now since I'm not sure that large landing light will be visible

I coupled the light switch to the retract channel, so the lights are on only when the gear is down ...

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 04:19 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
With the new lower ir batts it seems the Rafale wing gets a bit stressed at 150+ mph ... I went over various formers and wing joints with some fresh hysol. Some were very hard to reach ...

I also installed some simple carbon cloth wing to fuse joiners in the te region where there seemed to be some flex before. We shall see how well it works.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 04:21 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
The new WeMoTec EVO 90mm fans have arrived from Germany , the one piece rotors look very light.

The first measurements have been posted here, I am told there are more to come :

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=1#post3161981

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 05, 2013 at 01:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 04:30 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
One nice thing of the MidiFan EVO is that it drops right in the MidiFan shroud, no modifications necessary :

We shall see how it flies ...

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 03, 2013 at 04:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 03, 2013, 04:42 PM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
944 Posts
Herb
awesome looking forward to your report on the new Midi evo rotors!

Also I know you like to use the Turnigy K-Force ESC's. have you used the 6s 150amp K force if so are they a good unit?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
BadLemon is offline Find More Posts by BadLemon
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2013, 01:25 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Hi Bad,

Thanks, I have twin Kontronics Jazz 80A hv in the Rafale ... My experience with the Hobbywing (same as K-Force) esc's is that they are very good esp. given the price, at least the one model I tried (120A HV) . The specific one you mention I don't have.

If I use the new and old WeMoTec thust data, it seems the efficiency of the new and old fans are very close (probably within measurement errors), which is good. A slight concern for me (since I often fly from a dirt field) is the thin blades on the evo.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 04, 2013 at 01:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 04, 2013, 01:53 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,739 Posts
Should make for a stealthy fighter!
I have been very happy with the Hobby Wing 120 esc
Robert Belluomini is online now Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 05, 2013, 12:51 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Hi Bob I think it's interesting the the WeMo evo 90mm efficiency curve I calculated is actually a bit flatter if you take into account that all higher power measurements include cooling fins on the 650 motor, which add drag and decreases efficiency by 2% or something like that.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 06, 2013, 07:13 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,739 Posts
Herb thanks for the photos and data. Has the motor mount inside the shroud been updated? It has a looks different than what I recall.
Bob
Robert Belluomini is online now Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 06, 2013, 01:57 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
I did not see any noticeable differences in the shroud itself ... WeMo claims they have updated the fan units every couple of years or so, but I believe that refers mostly to the choice of composite material itself, not the actual mold ...

I flew the Rafale yesterday in the afternoon, and I could see both the landing light and the red beacon ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:38 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Here's another small change I noted on the new WeMoTec 5mm adapters, they removed the threads close to the hole so they would not burr when tightening the nut.

The alu adapter is a nice tight fit on the HET 650 shaft ...

The alu spinners seem to fit both the new and old rotors pretty well.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 10, 2013 at 04:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2013, 04:47 PM
Just having fun before I die!
BadLemon's Avatar
DeKalb,IL
Joined Dec 2008
944 Posts
Edit: It seems I may have jumped the gun now it looks like your haven't installed the updated EVO rotors yet.

How was the flight performance with the new EVO rotor compared to the old Pro rotor?
BadLemon is offline Find More Posts by BadLemon
Last edited by BadLemon; Jul 10, 2013 at 05:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 11, 2013, 02:49 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
... Still debating what to put the new fans in ...

I've been doing quite a bit of flying lately, and there's a good chance one of the fans on one of my edf jets will evetually suck in some fod So that will be a nice rotor upgrade ...

The Rafale still flies pretty well on the twin WeMo pros, I am no longer sure (as I was a week ago) that a small improvement in sound is worth all the work of ripping the fans and thrust tubes out & possible motor replacements (the new fan pulls somewhere around 10% more current and I don't what to switch to new packs, with different CG & form factor etc.).

Maybe one that's a bit underpowered, so that the higher load on the new fan will bump up the power a bit w/o any further major changes ... decisions.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 11, 2013 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 14, 2013, 12:54 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Belluomini View Post
Herb thanks for the photos and data. Has the motor mount inside the shroud been updated? It has a looks different than what I recall.
Bob

Correction ... it seems there are some changes to the shroud, the newer ones are stamped "WeMoTec" as you can see in this picture from the WeMoTec site:

The WeMoTec shroud is very strong ... in fact I think quite a bit stronger than the older DS-51 shrouds (but perhaps not the new ones...). The problem I found over the years is deformation due to motor heat : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=915522&pp=100

I've re-used a lot more shrouds than rotors ... rotors don't last me more than 1-2 years. After a while I can see pitted blades, chips and dents when looking into the intakes The lower the intakes (like in the Rafale ) , the worse the problem.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jul 14, 2013 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2013, 05:57 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Belluomini View Post
Should make for a stealthy fighter! ...
The sound seems pretty cool, here is the 80mm EVO version (WeMoTec MidiFan EVO rotor cut down to 80mm, 6S 94A)

Now I just have to rip out those older fans

.

Habu 32 von Peter Lubach mit WeMoTec Midi Fan evo (3 min 58 sec)
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2013, 01:49 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,177 Posts
I just noted that the original designer of the Aeronaut Rafale, Joer Rehm, is now making a full ducting (bifurcated inlets and bifurcated thrust tube) for a 90mm single (he likes the Turbofan 2000 ). We shall what comes out ...

The 90mm setup is not really optimal in view of the intake cross section, but as Joerg argues, it nevertheless allows to use a larger variety of commercially available quality fans :

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...e-mit-90er-Fan

http://translate.google.com/translat...e-mit-90er-Fan

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2013, 02:36 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,739 Posts
Herb does Joerg say he will market the ducting on his own or will Aero Naut sell them?
Robert Belluomini is online now Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 06, 2013, 03:02 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2007
19 Posts
Hi Robert,

I think aeronaut will sell them.

Joerg
JRjets is offline Find More Posts by JRjets
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mini-Review Rafale by Aeronaut Herb Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 992 Mar 21, 2005 12:17 AM